Diver flickering

Category: Helpdesk · Tags: — · Posts: 50

#1 — Spacenoodle · 2019-10-03

When sending ramps from Diver to either Memory Palace or Structure, there is a hiccup/flicker every few seconds. Memory Palace is the master clock, and power is supplied by a Monorocket M9C. I tried replacing sync cables, moving the modules to different power rails with no luck. What might be causing this?

http://www.dblondin.com/movies/flicker_problem.MOV

#2 — Spacenoodle · 2019-10-03

If I unplug the sync cable and let it drift the flicker goes away.

#3 — Z0NK0UT · 2019-10-03

Some Divers seem to have inconsistencies processing sync signal. Users have quelled the issue by placing Diver first in the chain after the sync source, but this isn’t working for everybody. The LZX team is in the midst of researching the issue. I will post the solution here once I have a definitive answer. Sorry for the trouble!

#4 — Spacenoodle · 2019-10-04

Thanks, looking forward to it. I hope it’s not a hardware issue - it’s assuring that the Orion modules can be fixed/improved/augmented with firmware updates!

#5 — Z0NK0UT · 2019-10-05

Do you happen to have a Visual Cortex or another sync source? If so, could you try syncing to something other than Memory Palace? We have a hunch that using Memory Palace as a sync source might be the issue.

#6 — Spacenoodle · 2019-10-05

Oh no. Unfortunately I don’t presently have another way to generate sync besides Memory Palace. I have a TBC2 on order but I’m assuming that will be a while.

I’m not sure why Structure can’t generate the sync. The is an RCA connector on the back labeled “GEN” but I’ve had no luck with it. Erogenous tones mentioned to me once “To use ramps from LZX with STRUCTURE you need to run a SYNC signal into STRUCTURE from something like Visual Cortex, so the input will be synced.”

#7 — sumawave · 2019-10-06

Hello,

I use Cadet 1 for the master sync of my system. That works well with the other modules of Cadet/ Castle series. But Diver doesn’t make steady images even if placed just next to Cadet 1. Images drift, or hiccups like Spacenoodle has shown. When I put the signals from Cadet 2 RGB encoder into Cadet 1, the speed of drifting and the frequency of hiccups seems to be lessened. How can I think of that? Is there effect of signal feedback of sync pulses?

#8 — creatorlars · 2019-10-07

Hi everyone. We’ve been doing some thorough lab testing with Diver, and are in the midst of confirming some fixes. So far, we track the compatibility issues down to Memory Palace and Cadet I when either are used as the master sync sources.

Once we find a fix, it will either be firmware upgrade (ideal!) or we’ll ask to recall your Memory Palace for a warranty fix that involves some hardware changes. Or there will be a small adapter PCB that solves the issue that we can ship you.

For now I would recommend you try a chain with an external video source as your sync master. For example:

Memory Palace

External Video -> Diver Loop In

Diver Loop Thru -> Memory Palace Loop In (Memory Palace in External Sync mode.)

Cadet I

External Video -> Diver Loop In

Diver Loop Thru -> Cadet I Sync/Video In

If you can try this, please let us know how it goes. In the meantime, we’ll be working on a more permanent fix. We’re just drowned in work getting TBC2 ready at the moment. Most of the rest of the year is attention on the Orion modules after that job is done.

#9 — sumawave · 2019-10-08

Hi creatorlars.

I tried ’ External Video -> Diver Loop In

Diver Loop Thru -> Cadet I Sync/Video In '. H+V ramp was used.

I found that drifting was lessened but frequent flickering appeared (there was some frame offset from before). I will be glad if it helps you to resolve the problems. thank you.

#10 — Entropist · 2019-10-13

I am having similar experience with the Diver and MP sync. With MP as generator, I will get flicker, scrolling and unable to send ramps into Structure 1v RGB in’s.

Currently running Vidiot as sync generator and getting better results but still a little quirkiness in the Diver. My Diver does have the first firmware update. Able to get Diver ramps into Structure’s 1v RGB in’s.

Sync chain is:

Vidiot sync out (loop switch down) > Diver> Fortress> MP> Structure (terminated)

Here is a quick video of H+V ramp on bank3:

In all of the banks & outputs there is a step on the right side of output on vertical ramp. There is also a bit of wobble and jitter on horizontal ramp, it is more noticeable on just the H ramp out. I unfortunately don’t have a capture device and it is tricky to get a decent example of these finer details that are more noticeable in person. Also getting some strange behavior that does not seem normal when MP is externally synced. The MP will not send a color image from either composite outs when connected directly to my CRT. Color works as expected over DVI/HDMI or if I send the composite outs to the Strucutre(?!). Dont have the a cable to test MP’s S-Video output. (I’ll edit this part out and make a new thread if too off topic)

Was starting to go a little crazy trouble shooting today until I came across that others are still having some issues. Hope this info is at least a little helpful

#11 — Z0NK0UT · 2019-10-13

Thanks for the report. That’s super helpful.

Are you using Vidiot’s LUMA output for sync?

Could you try removing Memory Palace from the setup to see if that eliminates the issues?

#13 — Apfelmann · 2019-10-14

mine often freezes after powerup (döpfer low cost case, sync from diver to vidiot) sometimes i have to unplug the döpfer case to unfreeze, sometimes i have to unplug the vidiot. and sometimes it freezes in the middle of patching. i will continue to observe this

#14 — Z0NK0UT · 2019-10-14

That is odd. Are you sending Vidiot Luma out to the Diver sync input?

#15 — Apfelmann · 2019-10-14

yep, luma out to diver, got that wrong in the first post. could it be that, if diver is patched, the incoming signals/modulation is responsible for the freezing? not quiet shure, but i think it never froze unpatched, have to test this theory

#16 — VRIDD · 2019-10-15

I’ll join in on this thread, as I also have some sync issues with Diver. I have a B-stock unit bought quite recently, and no matter what I do it just won’t accept any PAL or NTSC sync signal. I’m trying to use it with a Visual Cortex, and I have no other modules in the system that take sync signals over RCA.

I have tried:

• Free-running VC sync out to Diver
• VC locked to house sync (Astro SL-7036) to Diver
• House sync into Diver, then through to VC
• One house sync line to VC and one to Diver

… and I’ve tried all of the above with both PAL and NTSC, and with Diver’s terminate switch both on and off. I’m nowhere near getting this in sync, the Diver’s output looks completely erratic.

There are two suggestions from @wiatrob I haven’t tried yet because I don’t have the necessary bits available:

• Using a 75 ohm terminator on Diver instead of the terminate switch
• Running the sync signal through a distribution amplifier with gain

I’m hearing that LZX is working on a firmware update for Diver, but I’m wondering:

1. Is the firmware update intended to solve the problem that I have? Most other discussions seem to involve Memory Palace as sync master, that’s not what I’m doing
2. As I have a B-stock Diver with no USB I’ll need a programmer gizmo to upldate the firmware. Does anyone have a stock no. for a suitable one at a reputable dealer? (no Banggood)
3. What’s the timeframe for the update? I’m hoping to use the module for a production that’s happening kind of right now

#17 — sumawave · 2019-10-15

Hi, thank you for important report. Then we know there is a syncing issue also between Visual Cortex and Diver now. I want to know witch is wrong, our sync masters or our Divers.

#18 — Z0NK0UT · 2019-10-16

It should be noted that Diver sync issues are isolated. We’ve only seen a handful of Divers with sync issues so far (out of nearly 100 units shipped). Most Diver users are not experiencing sync issues. A solution for those who are having trouble is in progress, but has been elusive thus far.

#19 — VRIDD · 2019-10-16

FWIW apparently my issue is completely different from the problems related to the combination of Diver and MP. My module is on its way to LZX for an overhaul – so my case may not be relevant to this thread.

#20 — creatorlars · 2019-10-17

@VRIDD You may need to send your unit back to us, I’m very sorry for the trouble. If your unit isn’t working under any of those conditions, there’s definitely something wrong.

#22 — VRIDD · 2019-10-18

It’s already on its way across the sea

#23 — giantmecha · 2019-10-18

Hi - I’ve been directly in touch with support, also having Diver sync issues. Trying to send sync from MP in every possible configuration still gives me the same flicker issues as above.

#24 — sumawave · 2019-10-20

Hello, would you tell me what did you do then? Did you send your Diver to LZX for overhauling?

#25 — giantmecha · 2019-10-21

Hi - I’m just waiting for the firmware update. Hopefully soon!

#26 — Apfelmann · 2019-10-25

so after a small studio rearragement i can confirm that my diver also freezers with no incoming modulation. shorty after powerup i tried to switch banks and it got stuck on nr. 3. also slight flickering. all good after second power up

#27 — sumawave · 2019-10-29

Hi guys,

It seems that I managed to resolve the sync issues of Diver. I use Cadet 1 for sync source. I have no idea about the other sync sources like VC, MP and so on because I don’t have any of them. However, there may be a hint for resolving the issues.

I made sync loops as below, using multiple cables.

Cadet 2 out —> Diver’s loop in

Cadet 2 out —> Cadet 1 sync in

Cadet 1 out —> Cadet 3 in

There are no longer drifting or flickering of Diver’s output. I think the feedback loops might enhanced the sync signals. Perhaps Diver needs stronger signals for sync than in usual installation, I think.

#28 — sprthhfk · 2019-11-02

I hope this works for me! How are you inputting camera signal to Cadet III? I usually go

Camera–Cadet I in, Cadet I out–Cadet III in. I’m excited to pull Diver back out of the box, but this will complicate my signal flow quite a bit

#29 — sumawave · 2019-11-03

Hi, I’ve not tried external camera input yet. So sorry I don’t know whether that works well or not with external inputs.

At least I can tell you what I’m going to do. I’ll connect my camera’s RCA composite to my Cadet 1 sync-in with a RCA-to-3.5mm socket like the picture and a stackable cable. Jammed cables may be annoying. I’ll try it ASAP and report again.

Good luck.

#30 — sprthhfk · 2019-11-03

So I just tried this out, I don’t have the RCA to 3.5mm adapters, so I just used Cadet II’s other output into Cadet I sync in. The issue is still going on. Do you think that it isn’t working because I couldn’t use the same Cadet II output to Diver and Cadet I sync in?

#31 — sumawave · 2019-11-03

I wondered if my Diver needs a kind of ‘more’ strong or clear sync signals, so then l tried to feedback the sync to Cadet 1(from Cadet 2). There might have to be an extra sync loop including Diver in addition to the sync distribution through the 16-pin power cable (not 14-pin) that supplies sync signals from Cadet 1 to Castle series (or also to Diver). Was that bingo? I don’t know but I could made it, you know.

Well, did you connect one of Cadet 2’s video out to Diver’s loop-in? And above all, did you connect the same 16-pin cable power between your Cadet 1 and Diver? I could not see clearly on your photo.

P.S I read over and over and finally got it. You’ve only connected Cadet 2 out and Cadet 1 in… you should join Diver in the loop.

#32 — sprthhfk · 2019-11-03

Could you tell me how to connect power directly from cadet I to Diver? I’m not sure what you mean

#33 — sumawave · 2019-11-03

Cadet 1 and Diver have to supplied power from the same 16-pin cable on their back. They’re on different lines in your eurorack case, so I’m afraid your Cadet 1 and Diver don’t share the sync.

#34 — sumawave · 2019-11-05

Hi,

I report on wether external camera does work well or not in the feedback loop. The feedback loop I have shown is necessary for stabilizing Diver’s syncing.

The result is— external camera could not work well. See the movie that exhibits feedback loop generating excess color (blue in this movie). And external camera input made sync instability.

Discussion now,

1 Feedback loop would make delayed response to external sync.

2 (My) Cadet 1 has jitter? (I’m afraid seriously)

3 Jitter might be multiplied and widened by feedback loop.

I have no idea for now how to make external input work well along with Diver witch has sync issues.

TBC2 may resolve it…

I hope someone give me advice.

#35 — JonasBers · 2020-01-19

I had some problems syncing Diver to a few different sources, but found that it syncs nicely to the output from an ad724 (used in the cadet II). My solution was adding a parallel RCA output (724 out > 220uF cap > 75R resistor > jack) on the back of one of my encoders and then using that for sync. Full disclosure, I wasn’t using a cadet encoder, but my b&w encoder that’s based on C2. I’m mentioning this because that might be an easy solution for those of you that don’t use a visual cortex but want a convenient composite sync source in your system.

#36 — sumawave · 2020-01-19

Hi,

I’ve read your posting excitedly. Your way looks much smarter than mine. It will work with the system using C1 too, I suppose. It doesn’t need to kill C1 sync-in so may be able to connect external camera. By the way how/ where do you put the jack of parallel out of C2’s AD724? On the blank area of PCB?

Thank you.

#37 — JonasBers · 2020-01-21

Yes, I use a C1 for sync, and it works with all the typical things I send it. For the RCA jack, I used a right-angle style jack that has a substantial plastic housing. It’s attached to the side of the sync header with some c-a glue. Feels pretty solid. I’d take a pic, but it’s already back in the case.

#38 — sumawave · 2020-01-21

I appreciate your detailed guidance. Though one Chromagnon is to come, I’ll continue to use C1 for my sub system and do the mod you told us too. Thank you.

#39 — JonasBers · 2020-02-10

After some time with this, I’m still getting occasional flickering. I also lose sync completely when I feed the C1 certain external sync signals. Hoping the firmware update fixes this. Diver is such a rad module, but it’s unreliable for me with C1 at the moment.

#40 — nerdware · 2020-02-23

I’m seeing noise on edges and some phase (?) jitter. I’ll be very happy if a firmware update fixes this.

Here’s a second video, using a different Diver output and some keying. You can see the noise more clearly, I think.

#41 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-02-24

Thank for sharing. The more Diver debugging we can do ahead of the next firmware, the better!

#42 — jsonpayload · 2020-12-31

I have the flickering issue on my Diver and I’ve never been able to resolve it. I’ve tried tens of variations of sync between Visual Cortex, MemPal, external video source, and Diver (including toggling the sync switches on the backs) and I still have issues every time.

Any clues of what to do?

thx yall

#43 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-12-31

Unfortunately the only thing to do with Diver quirks at this point is to wait for the new firmware. TBC2 has commanded full attention (away from Memory Palace and Diver), but the good news is that all progress on TBC2 will benefit its Orion siblings (and Chromagnon).

#44 — Revolved · 2022-01-29

I’ve been running some tests with using the diver to sync a prismatic ray via passage and it seems like the 1 pixel seam is causing the sync issues. They can appear almost identical! I wouldn’t be surprised that once the 1 pixel seam issue is fixed, the sync issue is also fixed. It’s frustrating to sync the diver at the moment. Fingers crossed this gets addressed!

#45 — creatorlars · 2022-01-29

We’ve pulled Diver out recently in prep for a bugfix release. So hopefully you won’t have to wait much longer on that update. This issue (the phase texture seam’s starting position) is the first one to correct.

#46 — mauiey · 2022-01-30

When plugging Diver H and V ramps into an oscilloscope on XY mode, I see a line. The position of the line is controlled by the X scroll slider.

I’m curious if it’s related to the above / what causes it?

#47 — creatorlars · 2022-01-30

mauiey wrote:

I’m curious if it’s related to the above / what causes it?

It does seem to relate to sync alignment/offset. But which issue is causing the other, it’s hard to say. I will have to look at the sync pulses together on the scope (possibly after tapping some wires off testpads on the PCB) in order to diagnose it with certainty. It could just be a glitch in my code for the phase wrapping.

For the XY measurement, if you adjust the phase slider, can you move the line to the left side of the raster?

Can we see a screenshot of the glitch you’re seeing with the Prismatic Ray?

Not trying to give you busy work; but if you want to keep seeking I won’t stop you! I’ll solve this when I get into it.

#48 — mauiey · 2022-01-31

Yes, I can move the line all the way to the left. I don’t have a Prismatic Ray but here are some pictures of Z modulated with Clock VCO. The dark horizontal line you see in the bottom pictures can be moved by the other phase slider.

#49 — Revolved · 2022-02-06

Here’s an example of the sync glitch with Prismatic Ray. You can see the blip every few seconds. It’s kind of a messy patch and running through some structure fx but it’s hard not to see the jump when it happens. Streamable link to Untitled 05

#50 — Apfelmann · 2022-03-15

Any Updates on that topic?

#51 — creatorlars · 2022-03-15

I’ll post here on the forum as soon as there are updates on Diver. I’ll be digging into it after the TBC2 release, which is what I’m working on now.

#52 — jsonpayload · 2023-02-02

While doing a full system/module reorganization, I got my Diver to work this past week for the first time ever!

My specific issue was having some of the following RCA female-to-female couplers in my sync chain.

I don’t believe the coupler failed as the sync chain worked fine with for analog modules when these couples were present – but these couplers caused issues for Diver (and maybe MemPal too but I’d have to go back and check). The couplers worked fine with video signals in general.