LZX 3rd Generation: 2020 and beyond

Category: Forum · Tags: — · Posts: 142

#1 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

Howdy!

I’ve been meaning to make this post in the wake of our Halloween announcement, in which I explain our direction moving forward into 2020 with current, past and future development. Please feel free to ask any questions in this thread.

• LZX is entering a third era of development. In each generation we have experimented a lot: Visionary, Expedition and Orion series are all documentations of journeys through a lot of analogue processing territory and instrumentation concepts. This generation is less about experiments and more about encapsulating our work in a way that is designed for continuous production and focused on the community’s needs. The best LZX yet.
• Instruments are getting bigger and EuroRackable with Automata series! Any of them can be perfect entry points or system cores, or an expanding modular system all their own. New EuroRack Modules are getting simpler and more affordable, through a rebirth of our Visionary series.
• We’re not leaving any work behind! Where products have been discontinued, it is because direct functional replacements are planned or revisions to existing modules are planned.
• The projects we’ve outlined to take us into 2020 and beyond are a direct result of listening to you all, and trying to take all voices into account.
• In general, we’re narrowing down our product list. We can’t keep up with demand with our cashflow spit across so many production projects. That does not mean we don’t want to offer our full catalog or an expansive catalog, just that we need to focus on matching demand for the core products for a while and continue to stabilize our production flow.
• We’re trying not to jump too far ahead. This is the direction, but we’d like to take it in phases. We’ll be listening to you actively at each phase.

So here’s the shape of things! Two new series we’re going to focus on: one for modules, one for instruments. Automata series is where most of our more advanced analogue work will evolve, as full instruments and voice modules. Visionary Series Mk2 will be core EuroRack modules with DIY options: basic and classic. Both series will be short lists, we plan to cover a lot of territory in a few products.

LZX Automata Series (Gen3)

• Chromagnon, XY Video Instrument, March 20th 2020.
• RGB Video Instrument.*
• Texture Video Instrument.*

LZX Visionary Series II (Gen3)

• DC Distro, 4HP EuroRack Module, Q1 2020

• Sync Distro, 8HP EuroRack Module, Q1 2020 (converts to and from RCA/14 pin sync, active buffered mults to solve interfacing issues with various systems or standards)

• Dual Video Waveform Generator, EuroRack Module, Q3 2020.

• Triple Fader/Key Generator Mk3, EuroRack Module, Q3 2020.

• Video Blending Matrix Mk3, EuroRack Module, Q3 2020.

• This list may expand by 2-3 more and include some kind of utility encoder/syncgen for complete DIY systems.

All Mk2 Visionary modules are planned for DIY and and production assembled variants.

• There will also be a Sampler/Video Mixer Instrument. It’s unclear whether it will be an Automata series or Orion series device (probably the Orion capstone.)

DISCONTINUED

Vidiot (replaced by Chromagnon)

Polar Fringe (replaced by Chromagnon)

Visual Cortex (replaced by Chromagnon, and other future Automata instruments)

Navigator (replaced by Chromagnon)

Shapechanger (replaced by Chromagnon, and other future Automata instruments)

Cyclops (replaced by Chromagnon)

Marble Index (replaced by future Automata RGB instrument)

Prismatic Ray (replaced by Diver, Visionary Mk2 Dual Osc and Chromagnon)

Color Chords (replaced by future Automata RGB instrument, Visionary Mk2 Blending Matrix)

War of the Ants (replaced by future Automata Texture instrument)

Cadet series (we’ll keep selling until the end of the year, but these will be replaced entirely by diy variants of Visionary Mk2. edit: We’ll continue to offer Cadets 5 thru 8.)

Liquid TV (no direct replacement planned)

ACTIVE/RETAINER STATUS (we’ll keep making these)

All Orion modules

Topogram

Curtain

Mapper

Castle series PCBs

Arch

Bridge

Passage

Doorway

Staircase

Sensory Translator

Pendulum

Hopefully this overall road map will give everyone some context and answers. Looking forward to the discussion.

FYI: I have edited this OP to keep the info as clear as possible as your questions come up.

#2 — northerntao · 2019-11-13

Curtain? Or maybe a triple filter v2?

#3 — Jesse · 2019-11-13

I’m going to have so many F’ing TVFKGS!!!

ALSO WELCOME TO TVFKG LATECOMERS

Hexx yea

#5 — Jesse · 2019-11-13

Also DIY visionary series is such a gift to the community. Massive ups because that rules.

@creatorlars - Care to elaborate on TVFKGmk2? I have both the old variants, but I’m assuming MK2 denotes some new more better extra functionality?

We need a fat matrix multiplying mixer thing

#6 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

@northerntao Curtain’s not discontinued – but we’re going to make the call after this next production batch. There are likely to be our most exciting VCFs yet present in the texture and RGB instruments for Automata series.

#7 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

TVFKG mk2 will be something different, borrowing lineage both from the original TVFKG and work we’ve done in Expedition series. We’ll be excited to announce it officially around the time Chromagnon ships next Spring.

#8 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

The sampler isn’t on here yet – it will likely be announced after Chromagnon ships and we reach some bigger milestones with TBC2/Memory Palace.

Hourglass will be integrated into Automata series instrument designs (each will have its own animation subsystem.)

#9 — rempesm · 2019-11-13

I really appreciate your commitment to keeping the DIY vibe alive in future production. Thanks, Lars.

#10 — northerntao · 2019-11-13

And I saw Shapechanger made a surprising reappearance in the LZZ shop today, so I snapped one up along with a Navigator. The Chromagnon sounds intriguing, but I think I’m more drawn to the modular stuff. I’d hemmed and hawed on the the XY stuff, but I’m all in now. Especially with an XYZ scope on the way

Kudos to the Visionary rebirth! A VBM is on my wish list, especially with the CC being out of production and the desire to have more Matrix. That Solarium thing looked pretty cool too . Looking forward to the new stuff too.

#11 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

Yeah! We had a few Shapechangers on our QA recovery rack and Jason made them breathe again today.

In the modular context, Chromagnon is a complete voice (standalone image generator), but still very expandable. Like how you want Navigator+Shapechanger in pairs, this would give the full voice. I’m excited to show a bigger picture of the instrument.

#12 — sprthhfk · 2019-11-13

Not sure if you’re aware, but Chromagnon can be used standalone or racked as a module

#13 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

Yeah, it’s more of a EuroRack voice module that comes with its own mini case.

#14 — northerntao · 2019-11-13

Yes, I saw that. The Chromagnon looks amazing, but it already seems to have overlap with pieces I already have in modular form - VC, Mapper, Polar Fringe, etc. I have an Escher Sketch, which quite honestly has seen little use so far, as well as a Memory Palace but I’ve wanted more XY control with input. And as modules, I will probably have more flexibility as to the order of things compared to the mostly normaled path of an instrument. We’ll see.

#15 — brownshoesonly · 2019-11-13

Are the DIY visionary all through hole? Are the preassembled also through hole. Or smt variants with different depths/board designs?

#16 — lalocejas · 2019-11-13

So, I take it the expedition series will be no more? I really like the way expedition looks aesthetically, with the one color and the knob choice, much more than the visionary series, but just my two cents. So will any of the expedition modules be DIY? Are expedition and visionary series compatible?

Thanks for the updates.

#17 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

@brownshoesonly Ask me again around April 2020. All still to be determined! Production modules will definitely be SMT. DIY modules will either be all thruhole or will be with SMT pre-assembled, there are a lot of factors hinging on that and we also want time to get everyone’s feedback during the process. The goal will be to make them thruhole so that we can sell bare PCB/Panel sets. But if the thruhole parts are gonna cost you 80 bucks and i can sell you the pre-assembled SMT for 40 bucks instead, then do you really want to pay $40 more to be able to solder all the ICs yourself? So we’ll just have to see, as we research new op-amp series to consider.

#18 — sean · 2019-11-13

A little curious why discontinuing all Cadets? I get that some will be somewhat redundant with Visionary DIY, and some would need to be updated if you wanted them to be RCA sync. But, unless I am mistaken, that still leaves several that could be useful to keep around as is.

Not really a matter of self-interest here, but just curious. I would think (from an armchair perspective; don’t actually know) keeping PCBs/panels in stock wouldn’t be too hard. Is it more a matter of all-or-nothing? Like keeping three or four around doesn’t seem worth the trouble? Having some single-function DIY options still available seems kinda nice.

#19 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

Expedition Series isn’t going anywhere – it is a design language with a specific focus on complex, integrated functions and series ramp processing. Some module concepts are always going to fit best into the Expedition mindset, so we might make more modules in the series. Topogram, which we’re shipping this month, is an example of a very Expedition concept. If we find the community is attached to specific discontinued module concepts, we can revise them to a v2 and put them back into active production. We just have to wait until we have the resources to do that, right now we’re spread too thin to keep everything active. My guess? Once you see the full vision of the Automata instruments, it will all make a lot more sense.

Visionary Mk2 releases won’t look like the old modules, they’ll have a new design language. We’ll get some feedback before settling on anything. These new “core set” modules may even have a different name by the time we get there. The intention now is to communicate the intentions of the roadmap we’re planning to follow, and the reasons for it.

Expedition series will not have DIY options.

All LZX video synths follow the 1V patchable video format since day 1, and will continue to do so, so all the series are compatible. Our promise has always been that we’re going to stick to that and provide a core foundation for the format. You may run into some differences in sync formats, but the “Sync Distro” planned can convert between any of them.

The new Automata instruments and Visionary Mk2 reboot are products we’re specifically designing to be made continuously for many long years to come.

#20 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

sean wrote:

rest here, but just curious. I would think (from an armchair perspective; don’t actually know) keeping P

Yeah we could still stock some of the Cadets. One of my goals going into 2020 is to only have products with RCA sync in/out in active stock or supported. So it’s only the sync/encoder modules that need to be discontinued. We could also just revise them as they are, if that’s what you want. We just can’t do it all at once, so we are just looking for the most useful next step right now. Our goal is that we’d love to have DIY and production versions of a “core set” of module designs.

Having multiple sync formats on active products has caused us (and some of you) loads of headaches. We’re being very cautious about having products competing with each other, but with DIY it’s a different consideration, we can afford to have the variations.

#21 — GijsvO · 2019-11-13

Your company’s transparency is truly unique and much appreciated! I’m also very happy that you will continue to have a DIY line.

#22 — sean · 2019-11-13

Yeah, totally get the “can’t do everything at once” thing!

Definitely agree that deprecating the old sync standard is a very good idea. As well as the general push to remove product redundancies (with the exception of more standalones, and thus more inputs & outputs — which is actually a super useful redundancy!).

As far as Cadets, I guess I’d argue for keeping the still-relevant ones around (Hard Key, Fader, Multiplier, Scaler, etc.), if it’s not too much trouble. But, I don’t know, maybe those barely sell enough to warrant it? Kind of imagine it is just a trickle with those guys. Then again, I do also see people talking about buying multiples of them, so…?

#23 — joem · 2019-11-13

I was already psyched about the Automata Series, but I’m psyched about the Visionary Series II too!

#24 — reverselandfill · 2019-11-13

Very exited about the new DIY range!!

#25 — 337is · 2019-11-13

creatorlars wrote:

If we find the community is attached to specific discontinued module concepts, we can revise them to a v2 and put them back into active production.

Reading this gives me reassurance. I’d secretly wished for it, but reading it from you directly pleases me greatly, thanks!

#26 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

A lot of cool ideas and sweat have gone into Expedition Series, we’re not leaving them in a grave or anything. If you’ll notice, the modules going out of production are the most expensive ones – the reason for this is that these are the modules which have the biggest impact on our ability to stock everything and still match demand. In 2018-2019 we have had Visual Cortex, Memory Palace and Vidiot all competing with each other for entry level customers and splitting our resources, creating a continual stress and hustle load around here that I’d like to remedy. If there are customers who feel frustrated that they aren’t able to continue plans for expanding their Expedition based systems, I definitely understand that and want to create the right environment for you.

I definitely do not want to see our products selling for list or higher than list pricing on the secondhand market. That’s completely contrary to the spirit of why we try not to overprice these things in the first place! So meeting demand is critical, for the good of everyone.

#27 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

Stocking the Cadet PCB/Panel sets is a breeze, we have a great logistics/ERP system that’s maturing finally. So no worries there. We can keep those Cadets around. What is working for us with DIY products is that we don’t sell kits or offer builder support. “I lost a capacitor on the floor” customer support e-mails or trying to debug someone’s DIY build utterly destroy any margins we make on DIY projects, so making the PCB/Panel sets cheap and available is a way of making the build the DIY’ers responsibility. And that means we can offer affordable resources and more of them.

I would love to put more resources into documentation and theory when it comes to these new “core set” releases. By splitting the designs as both production and DIY, documentation efforts are a dual investment, which helps.

#28 — jkbh · 2019-11-13

As a beginner who’s not used any of these two modules Passage and Triple Video Fader look sort of similar to me.

Can anyone explain what functionality seperate them and where do they overlap?

#29 — creatorlars · 2019-11-13

TVFKG is a triple crossfader with comparators, so like a voltage controlled switcher/video mixer. Passage is a utility gain/bias adjustment utility. So like an RGB color corrector with brightness and contrast. One way to use them together would be to have a Passage feeding each side of the TVFKG, then you have a video mixer/keyer with a color processor on each input.

Passage has more in common with Video Blending Matrix than it does with TVFKG.

#30 — wednesdayayay · 2019-11-14

i think at this point I could really give the TVFKG a workout but when I had one I had no idea what to do haha!

#31 — Videoactive_Avocado · 2019-11-14

Ha, thanks for at least mentioning tbc2

#32 — creatorlars · 2019-11-14

TBC2 is our highest priority project in both development and production until it’s in everyone’s hands. Anything that needs to be done to make that happen is happening before anything else.

The only reason we’ve announced Chromagnon now is to offer an explanation for why we’re pulling Visual Cortex and Vidiot out of production for the time being (it was necessary to line the dates up to where we fulfilled backorders for those products and discontinued them on the same date.) As evidenced by the lackluster preview of an incomplete faceplate, we’re mostly occupied by TBC2!

Only reason we’re announcing the Visionary reboot modules now is to provide a path for anyone concerned about the lack of Color Chords (VBM mk3 is effectively Color Chords mk2), the lack of Marble Index (TVFKG mk3 is effectively Marble Index Mk2) and the lack of Prismatic Ray (Dual VWG is effectively Prismatic Ray mk2.) The Visionary reboot is about providing a limited core set we will maintain as longstanding fixtures of the product line.

#33 — jsonpayload · 2019-11-14

Someone independent of LZX please make a liquid TV replacement!

#34 — creatorlars · 2019-11-14

We can put a new preview monitor on the dev calendar – Liquid TV needs a redesign, and we want color RGB input options and our own system for alternative monitoring, like histograms, etc. We’re just not ready to announce any more active projects than we have to right now. It’s possible the Automata instruments will include displays.

#35 — tylerm · 2019-11-14

To me, a display on Automata instruments seems like an unnecessary power draw for those who don’t need it. If every Automata instrument has multiple outputs, it wouldn’t be that hard to have an external preview monitor of some kind. If you just need a rough idea of the signal, you can get a rearview monitor for a car that costs less than $20. If you need something detailed, stuff like Blackmagic monitors can fill that gap.

Lars, I believe in the past I’ve seen you say that you’re not super attached to the 3U eurorack format and have only stuck with it because it’s what the largest group of people uses. Going forward, could you see LZX moving away from it entirely and focusing on just standalone instruments? Kinda sounds that way if there are ideas of every Automata instrument having its own display as well as many other functions that, assumingly, will take up a loooot of rack space. in the long run, I imagine it would save money to just have a standalone enclosure rather than build essentially a tiny eurorack case for every module?

#36 — creatorlars · 2019-11-14

tylerm wrote:

een you say that you’re not super attached to the 3U eurorack format and have only stuck with it because it’s what the largest group of people uses. Going forward, could you see LZX moving away from it entirely and focusing on just standalone instruments? Kinda sounds that way if there are ideas of every

I’m really excited to show our solutions to all of these design challenges! Most of them have been sorted out over the past two years in the continual development discussion which is ongoing around here; generation 3 is just about hitting the brakes and making it real after lengthy research into solving case and power issues, and tons of listening!

I love the EuroRack format! But EuroRack power supplies have been a massive thorn in the side of the community. I’d like the gear to perform much better, which means we have to take responsibility for doing our own power without relying on the quality of an external supply. In the process, we’re going to make sure all the gear can power off either a EuroRack supply or a DC barrel input.

If your case runs out of juice, the DC Distro module (which will be very cheap) is a way to distribute 12V in to DC barrels in the rear.

If you’re starting fresh or setting up a new case, you won’t need a EuroRack supply at all. Passive rack + DC distro and you’re good to go.

And if we include displays on the Automata series it will be for a few hundred more reasons besides just video preview.

#37 — tylerm · 2019-11-14

Oooh ok, the DC distro module makes a lot of sense to me now! That’s so awesome, turning any passive rack into a rack suitable for LZX makes the concept of building your own rack out of whatever you have lying around a lot more feasible. We are in the golden age of video synthesis.

#38 — creatorlars · 2019-11-14

Effectively though, you’re not wrong! We are moving our more complex designs to standalone instruments. We can give you a lot more power, functionality, and flexibility for your money when it comes to advanced analogue and digital processing that way.

It’s just that all the instruments are also EuroRackable! EuroRack started as a modular synth format, but it has evolved into something more like a micro-sized 19" rack standard. The community wants to be able to rack up any gear in sight, especially if it is patchable. There’s been tremendous demand for both EuroRack versions of Vidiot and standalone versions of Memory Palace.

We save so many resources by not having variations on products which end up splitting our cashflow. We make all of this more accessible by taking a more holistic approach to the more expensive modules as well. An “all accessories included” approach is going to be best for everyone. Sync will just work. Power will just work. And form factor can go from desktop to EuroRack with 4x user accessible screws at any time.

The “true modular” modules, in the sense of a modular synthesizer, will focus on being even more accessible to purchase and easy to use. We hope it helps you guys build huge systems without killing your budgets.

This split approach to instruments vs. modules is carefully engineered to maximize what we can offer your gear budget while still avoiding redundancy.

#39 — petro · 2019-11-15

I use a lot of lzx and one of my fav modules is Marble index. what I like most about it is cv opacity input control on channels a/b , which operate in negative or positive , I can plug a key generator of video in to opacity cv and make some insane looking stuff not possible with other modules. I guess what I am saying is when you do design a new mixing / compositing module to replace the functionality of Marble Index I would like to see more focus on cv inputs for compositing layers , and not so much focus on colorizing section or lots of knobs but just more focus on cv inputs and layers and blend modes. afaik the VBM and TVFKG don’t really seem to have many cv ins right ?

#41 — petro · 2019-11-15

It looks like the TVFKG is a mixer with key generators built in ? but for me the cadet hard key gen or doorway or topogram or polar fringe are perfect for controlling a mixer such as marble index without needing a key gen function in the mixer itself. I actually love polar fringe so much that I just got a second one

#42 — creatorlars · 2019-11-15

petro wrote:

operate in negative or positive , I can plug a key generator of video in to opacity cv and make some insane looking stuff not possible with other modules. I guess what I am saying is when you do design a new mixing / compositing module to replace the functionality of Marble Index I would like to see more focus on cv inputs for compositing layers , and not so much focus on colorizing section or lots of knob

You will be looking forward to the Automata RGB instrument! It will inherit everything related to advanced color mixing and blending modes. TVFKG will be a lower cost alternative and general utility based problem solver. And, as mentioned above, once we’ve stabilized our production cashflow there will be resources to put some of the Expedition modules back into production if that’s what the community would like to happen.

#43 — northerntao · 2019-12-02

Do you anticipate the new TVFKG having a soft key mode or is it too early to speculate?

#44 — creatorlars · 2019-12-04

It’s likely there will be high gain setting on the new TVFKG for soft keying.

#45 — petro · 2019-12-15

Actually I have been thinking about this and I guess having a mixer with a key generator on each channel would be useful/ interesting. I can’t wait to try the TVFKG 2

#46 — Thom-of-rats · 2020-01-12

Is it too early to know if the other Automata devices will be in the same price range as the Chromagnon?

#47 — Agawell · 2020-01-12

I’d be surprised if any were significantly cheaper - they will all have i/o and complex functionality (so a large number of parts) + case, power etc

#48 — creatorlars · 2020-01-13

$799 is an ambitiously low price point for what Chromagnon does! It’s likely the cost will be close to double for any 104HP Automatas, and stay similar for any 52HP Automatas. I’m unsure at this point if they will all be 52HP or not.

But definitely not any cheaper, if that’s the question. We do have another product series of standalone+modular $100-$300 devices we’ve been developing since last year as well, and will have more to say about that in the Summer.

#49 — Thom-of-rats · 2020-01-13

It certainly wasn’t a question of them being cheaper. I think you guys are fantastic. I’ve pre-order the Chromagnon and believe that the future automata release will cost as low as feasibly possible. I was thinking about the best way for me to save up for them too.

I guess I was also considering the form factor too. I had notice that 52hp was half of 104hp

Thank you for your response and keep up the amazing work.

#50 — FranzKappa · 2020-04-13

So there’s gonna be a replacement for color chords? I’ve planned to buy some additional modules for my vidiot (passage,curtain,fortress and a diver is already scheduled for delivery) and put them in a 60 hp case (4ms).But to come at least close of having results like with an ems videosizer,i’d need modules like color chords and marble index.Hopefully they will both be available in near future?

#52 — Agawell · 2020-04-13

As you can see mentioned above - the Color Chords and Marble Index won’t be directly replaced - there will be a RGB automata series module and a visionary mk2 Blending Matrix

and good luck with that case - I suspect it will be have noisy power which you will be able to see on screen - I’d check the recommended ones here if i were you

for example

Malekko has the power boards back in stock, we will have them on our webstore soon (and 15 Vessels available.) I felt like high frequency ripple in the Intellijel supply was pretty noticeable. I’d recommend a power supply architecture that has a switching supply followed by LDOs (Tiptop Mantis and Studio Bus, Doepfer PSU3, etc.) or a fully linear power supply.

this also see;s to be a problem with the 4ms power supplies

the cheapest recommended case would be a Doepfer LC6U which has the PSU3 or the Mantis - which are a bit more expensive - but will allow you more expansion room - which you will undoubtedly need - even if you don’t think you want it now

with the Mantis - you probably won’t be able to fill it completely with video modules* - but you can add non-video modules - I have Maths, Stages, Links and a Doepfer A-136 in mine with the rest filled with video modules and it works fine - quite a few “audio” eurorack modules work well with video - especially waveshapers and some filters and modulation sources - analog is usually best although I’ve had interesting results from a Befaco Chopping Kinky and Horstronic Waveslicer - both of which have atmegas from what I can remember - these can often work out cheaper than dedicated video modules

*you could run an Chromagnon or the RGB automata, yet to be officially announced, in it and power it from 9v though

#53 — FranzKappa · 2020-04-13

Wow,marble index and color chords substitute in one automata instrument? I’m gonna place this unit on my desk beside the vidiot if it’s 52 units too like the chromagnon (the 62 hp intellijel case would be the biggest i have space left for on my desk)

The modules will go in a 84hp doepfer case and placed below my eurorack modular.

Damn,can’t wait for further details on the automata rgb instrument.

#54 — Agawell · 2020-04-13

FranzKappa wrote:

The modules will go in a 84hp doepfer case and placed below my eurorack modular.

just watch out the 3u has a different psu iirc!!!

#55 — FranzKappa · 2020-04-13

Yeah thanks for the heads up.There really isn’t a psu3 in the 3u case.

#56 — rnordac · 2020-04-15

I put some video modules (Staircase, Doorway, Arch, Passage and Bridge) in a Pulp Logic LBZ54 case and did not see any noise, it performed as well as my doepfer 84hp 6u with psu3

#57 — Daisuk · 2020-06-12

I keep revisiting this thread, so just replying here to make it easier for me to find. Very useful!

#58 — Dr_Rek · 2020-07-24

Super excited for whatever will replace Visual Cortex’s mixing functions, as well as Marble Index. A next generation video mixer module is the last space reserved in my rig.

#59 — saiteron · 2020-08-12

i too am eagerly awaiting Marble Index v2 or whatever else comes around. Visual Cortex is an incredible workhorse to have around but there’s a deep yearning in my soul that only a Marble Index-ish thingamajig can satisfy.

#60 — wednesdayayay · 2020-08-12

@saiteron

creatorlars wrote:

Marble Index (replaced by future Automata RGB instrument)

this is the direct replacement the post talks about

that will be what you want

creatorlars wrote:

• Triple Fader/Key Generator Mk3, EuroRack Module, Q3 2020.>>- > Video Blending Matrix Mk3, EuroRack Module, Q3 2020.>>>>

these could work out too

a matrix mixer is a good partner for something like color chords/marble index but have the opacity control/inputs is really fun. You could totally get away without it though

https://www.etsy.com/listing/766849455/matrix-mixer?ref=shop_home_active_1&frs=1&crt=1

this matrix mixer from reverselandfill is what I’d get if you really think you just can’t wait at all

the video calculator is also an option but really expensive (lots of different features packed together though)

#61 — saiteron · 2020-08-13

thanks for the detailed reply! i’ve already looked at most of these options and i think i’m set on holding out for that RGB Automata instrument, whenever it may come… unless a Marble Index should find its way to me in the meantime

#62 — mvanier · 2020-08-21

Also can’t remember where I saw this so it might not be true, but If I remember correctly the others Automata will also be at least 52 hp (so around a 1000$) and I think Lars mentioned some of them could be up to 104 hp! So maybe around 2000$. If you are looking for a smaller/cheaper solution, you might be better with some previously mentioned options. But if you have the money and the rack space (actually don’t need the rack space bcause they are also standalone) I’m sure it’s going to be worth it!

#63 — banyek · 2020-09-04

…On another note, I am still absolultely looking forward to seeing this! Wonder if it had been integrated into Chromagnon or Diver already or will it see the light once as a standalone module?

#64 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-09-04

Diver does all of that and more!

#65 — jevergreen · 2020-09-04

Did you mean Chromagnon? Diver?

I’m absolutely certain Chromagnon will be the ‘Swiss Army Knife’ of video functions, but I would still love to have a Tower in my case someday. OMG, and what was that other one, ‘Loom’? Yes, please.

#66 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-09-04

Diver does all of the Tower functions and more, yes.

#67 — jwsmithwick1 · 2020-09-05

FWIW, I have a Diver, and it’s is so awesome, I’m thinking of getting a second one at some point when they come back in stock. Even with two divers, I would totally have a use for an 8hp fixed ramp generator like the “Tower”. I know cadet 4 is a possibility, however that is a deep module. I understand there may be logistical issues surrounding production, which is out of my hands, however I’m totally casting a vote for something like “Tower” to come down the pipeline - either as a expedition module or as a DIY build.

#68 — jevergreen · 2020-09-05

Z0NK0UT wrote:

Diver does all of the Tower functions and more, yes.

Oh, through the H & V Phase inputs, right (duh!). I confess that I don’t typically think of them as ramp processors, as much as I use them to modulate the internally generated ramps (thinking about that the other way around is great food for thought this weekend).

EDIT: After testing, I recall that while technically, yes, that is what the phase inputs do, the inputs are limited in frequency range. So, it’s not like the video rate processing you can get in, say, Navigator, with the X & Y anchor knobs/inputs. If I’m missing something in Diver, please let me know!

I just like the simultaneous outputs in the Tower concept, like Arch, Staircase, and Topogram. You get more out than you put in.

#69 — banyek · 2020-09-08

jevergreen wrote:

I just like the simultaneous outputs in the Tower concept, like Arch, Staircase, and Topogram. You get more out than you put in.

Yep, this is the way I deal with audio modular too. I acquired my system with Cadets, Castles and Expedition modules step by step in the last 2 years.

The language of the Expedition modules is what I like using and that’s how I like the workflow - also I see that the Orion modules are intended as a continuation of 80s digital video equipment. Also, Chromagnon will have plenty of ramps. Anyway, I still see this as a market niche: a standalone and basic analog module with plenty of specific ramp options - maybe a whole series of them.

#70 — Fabong · 2020-10-15

Alas! Cadets are disappearing from Thonk. Hopefully this means a new series of affordable DIY options are imminent. I was just about to order some too. Perhaps it’s best that I avoid an obsolete sync system in any case. Only the RGB encoder, scaler, processor and hard key generator remain in stock. So if you live in Europe this could be your last chance to grab one of those.

#71 — reverselandfill · 2020-10-15

unless you got to the next level of DIY and layout your own pcb’s, that is.

all Cadet and Castle modules are opensource / have their schematics available for anyone. go at it!

#72 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-10-15

The obsolescence of 14 pin sync will be avoided with the new Sync Distribution module (coming soon). The module will unite previous and current sync connection standards with front and rear connections.

#73 — Fabong · 2020-10-15

That’s true! Maybe someday I’ll be brave enough

#74 — Fabong · 2020-10-15

While that may be true I think most people would prefer not to buy into it now if it means they’ll need to buy an additional module just for sync conversion someday. I’ll just wait

#75 — rempesm · 2020-10-15

I had no idea how to lay out a PCB earlier this year and had previously resigned myself to hacky stripboard layouts. After it was announced that the Cadets were well and truly discontinued a few months ago, I’ve since learned how to lay out a board in KiCad and got my first prototype back from a fab house.

It’s worth taking the dive and it’s probably easier than you think. A lot of the heavy lifting has been done by all the wonderful folks who have made their schematics and designs freely available. Check out the Cadet and Castle schematics and look for patterns. I think @syntonie did a really great job of breaking down each part of the circuit in their recent VU series’ build guides. VU-001 is the direct inspiration for the above module, too.

P.S. I’ll have some of these boards available soon after I fix a silkscreening error on the panel jacks if anyone is down with S-Video and wants a handy splitter in their rack. PM if you’re cool with a B-stock panel. More interesting stuff is in the pipeline

#76 — Fabong · 2020-10-15

That looks great, is lliw your brand-name? I will keep an eye out for your modules in future. I always thought a combined sync-generator and ramp-generator would make sense so maybe I’ll try that when I learn more about laying out PCBs.

#77 — rempesm · 2020-10-15

Thanks! Yup, sure is–it’s a throwback to my Welsh roots. Conveniently most Welsh verbs end in “io”, too. Lliwio = ‘to color’ and also has a sense of imbuement to it

I’m almost done with a triple YPbPr distro following the same idea above which is probably of more interest to most folks.

Fabong wrote:

combined sync-generator and ramp-generator

An excellent idea and hope you go for it! You would just need to stitch together Cadet I and IV. I found this video an immensely helpful step-by-step overview of the process without getting deep into minutiae:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia2n7P3CsacI’ve only used JLCPCB so can’t comment on PCBWay’s price/turnaround time. I won’t derail the thread any further but feel free to PM me with questions.

#78 — wednesdayayay · 2020-10-17

" the LZX team is cranking out final restocks for a number of modules. Did I say final? That’s right, as we make way for a major Chromagnon push, we are discontinuing the rest of the Expedition line. Arch, Bridge, Doorway, Mapper, Passage, Staircase, and (surprise!) Topogram, will be restocked before they disappear. Curtain will not be restocked by LZX, but some dealers will receive inventory. Sensory Translator will remain in production.

"

I can’t wait to see how/if topogram gets folded into the colorizing/mixing instrument

polar fringe+topogram is such a compact little colorizing instrument.

it is also kind of neat that there are several different people making video instruments at this point and some of these gaps are already being filled in that way.

I suspect the new power standard moving forward will make many newbies and oldies alike happy in the long run.

As always patience is key

#79 — Robbertunist · 2020-10-17

Where did you find the quote @wednesdayayay? I’m really curious to see the reaction of the community.

#80 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-10-17

The quote is from the current LZX newsletter. I always update the link here: /forum/categories/

#81 — joem · 2020-10-17

I’m surprised about some of those, like Passage and Staircase. Those two are pretty useful, as shown in the 3 Patches videos which show them being used in almost every patch. While it’s a little sad to be at the end of the Expedition era, I’m even more excited about what’s coming next!

#82 — LILWILLY · 2020-10-17

As an Orion series preorder customer, I am really interested in the current state of LZX as a company. I appreciate all of the challenges they have encountered, but there has also been quite a delay bringing the Orion series to a stable place.

creatorlars wrote:

TBC2 is our highest priority project in both development and production until it’s in everyone’s hands. Anything that needs to be done to make that happen is happening before anything else.

The only reason we’ve announced Chromagnon now is to offer an explanation for why we’re pulling Visual Cortex and Vidiot out of production for the time being (it was necessary to line the dates up to where we fulfilled backorders for those products and discontinued them on the same date.) As evidenced by the lackluster preview of an incomplete faceplate, we’re mostly occupied by TBC2!

For me, it’s important to consider not only the pending release of TBC2 but also the untimely release of firmware updates for modules like Diver and Memory Palace.

As a Chromagnon preorder customer, I can understand the impact that the global pandemic has had on their supply chain. But when examining the slow discontinuation of nearly the entirety of the current conception of the Expedition series, it makes me wonder about the future. I appreciate the ambitious commitment to different production goals, but what I have seen as a customer is that LZX generally has a beautiful forward facing vision that is not necessarily realized until many months beyond their projections.

As much as I have confidence in the successful future of all the goals outlined in this post from 2019, it does worry me as a legacy customer that the the completion and full realization of an Orion series preorder placed in 2018 may require a willingness to dream till the beginning of 2021. Certainly in the case of Chromagnon, I am absolutely prepared for the deliverables to arrive at the end of this year or in 2021. (It’s probably relevant that even the Vidiot preorder was subjected to significant delay.)

There was a thread a month ago from a new user feeling awkward about building a system in the current market of LZX equipment. Another user astutely mentioned that:

the most important module in video synthesis is patience.>>>> the most useful module is knowing what you are trying to make.

And as a conclusion I guess I have to agree that indeed the most important and available video synth modules when deciding to support LZX through patronage and preorders are a willingness to accept things as they are and when they come because, what else are you going to do? Cancel your preorder in exchange for giftcards to purchase what’s available now?

#83 — Robbertunist · 2020-10-17

Thank you for the link

#84 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-10-17

There are a number of reasons for discontinuing modules. The first is to replace them with something better. LZX is a story of experiments, inventions, and discoveries. From the early Visionary modules to Chromagnon is an enormous step in refinement. Unlike audio Eurorack modules, there isn’t a playbook for how to package video circuits for commercial availability–LZX is a process of figuring out how best to do that and LZX users participate in that process.

Another reason for discontinuing modules is to eliminate the disappoint that many feel with the pre-order wait. LZX is working toward being able to offer products that can be purchased and shipped immediately. Having fewer products has to be a part of that, since the production team is small and can only work on so many things at once. So combining Cadet and Expedition lines, using concepts and parts present in Chromagnon makes sense. The plan is to eliminate gaps in production.

Landing the Orion mission has been tough. It was an ambitious plan that is on the cusp of being delivered. You have to remember that LZX is very small and is inventing things that don’t otherwise exist. There isn’t a team of engineers and programmers and hardware designers. It’s just a few people wearing multiple hats.

The state of the company is actually excellent–stronger than ever. The goals put forth in the OP still stand–and would be much closer today had the global pandemic not happened. LZX Industries isn’t the only industry still overcoming the effects of the pandemic. Companies much larger and better established are struggling to deliver their products. LZX is making progress. Is it as fast as we would like? No. Is it still good, important progress? Yes. We will get there and enjoy making video art together.

#85 — sean · 2020-10-17

Huh. Didn’t seem to receive this newsletter via email… Have always received them in the past.

(But was able to find it here.)

#86 — Fabong · 2020-10-17

Wow, didn’t expect so many modules to be canned. I expected Staircase at least to survive given it’s constantly touted as the best value video module out there, and it feels like Topogram has only just arrived on the scene. Now that’s a limited edition!

#87 — warpigs666 · 2020-10-17

#88 — Robbertunist · 2020-10-17

“So combining Cadet and Expedition lines, using concepts and parts present in Chromagnon makes sense.”

Perhaps I’m reading too literally into the above sentence but will the next DIY range affectively be a merger of the (soon-to-be) discounted #Expedition modules & the #Cadet line? Recently I briefly read that the forthcoming DIY range will be smt based (smaller components, higher density potentially means more power), am I getting warm or am I way off track?

& is their a codename or project name for the cadet replacement line?

#89 — ringer · 2020-10-17

What about the proposed Expedition modules like Tower, Loom, Marionette and Hourglass, will they go into production? These are incredible modules that need to go into production for people that have large systems. They really are missing pieces to complete the Expedition Line along with the Timeline sequencer lfo thingy.

#90 — Fabong · 2020-10-17

I wondered about this too, Hourglass in particular was described as Expedition’s “missing piece”

#91 — rempesm · 2020-10-17

If you are after the animation timeline function that the Hourglass mock up showed, you can certainly do this with non-LZX gear that’s already out there.

Essentially you just need a slow rising ramp waveform synced to a division of the frame rate and comparators tied to different evenly spaced specific thresholds which are then used to gate AD envelopes or whatever. So as the ramp goes from 0V-1V at whatever length you need, evenly spaced animation events can occur. A LZX native 1V format version would be ace but don’t let that stop you if you already have some other modules in your system that perform these functions.

#92 — Robbertunist · 2020-10-18

Hey @ringer

I only discovered the #Tower module concept a couple of weeks ago after stumbling across it & the other 4 modules that included the #Topogram on a Muffwiggler thread. I asked about it on the Facebook group page and was told that it basically has been implemented in Diver. Someone else created a thread on here a couple of months ago that I found after all this. There’s definitely other people interested in some of these modules. I guess a kick starter might be an option, for a super limited edition range. A production run of 25 or 50 for instance.

#93 — ringer · 2020-10-18

Good suggestion! Maybe we do a survey for each of these 4 modules plus the Timeline and see how many people want them. Hopefully, the numbers are strong enough and financially feasible for LZX to produce them or do a Kickstarter to gauge interest.

#94 — ringer · 2020-10-18

Thank you for the suggestion. An LZX native module would be far easier and elegant to deal with.

#95 — ringer · 2020-10-18

Number one reason for Tower, from the MW post.

Tower (frontpanel WIP) is an H/V ramp regenerator with integrated ramp generators. Rather than different waveshape outputs, you get 7 different rotated angle combinations of H & V ramps. It can also be a processor, or a redistribution bus for your Cortex ramps (or any H/V waveform pair) that will give you fixed rotations of the inputs. So think of it kind of like 7 Navigators frozen in place. Feed this with ramps rotated by Navigator and you have a supermodule concept… Windmill! So could also be thought of as a Navigator, Cortex, or Diver expander. 8HP

I am sure people would want one or two them in their systems.

#96 — wednesdayayay · 2020-10-18

it has been discussed that towers functionality got folded into diver i believe

we have to breathe and remember when prototype designs get posted they are potentially just that prototype designs.

take a look at the original chromagnon render it has changed tremendously since it first showed up

#97 — Robbertunist · 2020-10-18

I just checked & that other thread I saw about Tower was actually on here

Here a link:>> FWIW, I have a Diver, and it’s is so awesome, I’m thinking of getting a second one at some point when they come back in stock. Even with two divers, I would totally have a use for an 8hp fixed ramp generator like the “Tower”. I know cadet 4 is a possibility, however that is a deep module. I understand there may be logistical issues surrounding production, which is out of my hands, however I’m totally casting a vote for something like “Tower” to come down the pipeline - either as a expedition mod…>

& just in case, a screenshot.

#98 — Robbertunist · 2020-10-18

Agreed, there is only so much time, possibilities & resources. I wrote to LZX about such a module with various phase outputs about a month ago before becoming aware of the Tower and other prototypes like the Loom. I may foolhardily attempt to DIY my own one if I can get my head some the Cadet IV Ramps Generator module & then figure out the phasing. But I’d much rather put my money into a kick starter, the 3³ range where only 27 modules are produced or the 4³ were the run is limited to 64 modules.

#99 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-10-18

Lars mentions Visionary MKII in the OP. The line is expected to feature modules similar to the Cadet series, but SMT (available built or DIY). In addition to the modules mentioned in the OP, there will be a ramps module and inexpensive video encoder and decoder modules.

For those worried about losing Staircase. Chromagnon is the answer. It also rotates ramps!

Ahead of a demo video to show what Chromagnon can do, and in response to questions about how it works, here are some notes from Lars about the new LZX standalone synthesizer. > So to explain it compositionally, in a no-input case, it starts with ramp shape selection as the “scene”. You reach over to the right, set it to “triangle ramps” or whatever you like and then you select “Vector” if you want to process the ramps natively or “Shape” if you want to process them as a quadrilateral (4 quadrant …>

#100 — ringer · 2020-10-18

jevergreen wrote:

Diver does all of the Tower functions and more, yes.

Oh, through the H & V Phase inputs, right (duh!). I confess that I don’t typically think of them as ramp processors, as much as I use them to modulate the internally generated ramps (thinking about that the other way around is great food for thought this weekend).

EDIT: After testing, I recall that while technically, yes, that is what the phase inputs do, the inputs are limited in frequency range. So, it’s not like the video rate processing you can get in, say, Navigator, with the X & Y anchor knobs/inputs. If I’m missing something in Diver, please let me know!

I just like the simultaneous outputs in the Tower concept, like Arch, Staircase, and Topogram. You get more out than you put in.

Having an analogue version in the Expedition series would be more beneficial.

#101 — destroythings · 2020-10-18

But the costs difference is huge for people who have a a existing system and just want to add the functionality of staircase. Hopefully there will be a diy option for a staircase type module

#102 — joem · 2020-10-18

The Syntonie VU002 Quad Frequency Doubler is somewhat similar (if a bit more barebones) and is available for DIY. In a way, it’s like a Cadet version of the Staircase. https://syntonie.fr/produit/vu002-quad-frequency-doubler/

#103 — rempesm · 2020-10-18

VCA -> VU002 with creative patching gets you even closer to Staircase. VU002 is nice for getting 2x pairs of H/V ramp doublers for shape generation or mirroring across an axis.

#104 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-10-19

There will be another round of Staircase production, so there will be ample opportunity to get one before it goes away. It will later be replaced in the Visionary MKII series.

#105 — Robbertunist · 2020-10-19

Now pop Curtain as a last run on the production list & we’ll all be happy knob wigglers

Is there’s a planned replacement for it or will it be merged into a mixer module? Somehow I’m reminded of the opacity function on the Colour Chords but I’ve never tried either so that explains my daft statement.

#106 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-10-20

All Cadet and Expedition concepts will be replaced in some fashion. Curtain’s specific replacement will be decided after TBC2/MmemoryPalace/Diver firmware updates and the Chromagnon production push. Expect announcements in early 2021.

#107 — mvanier · 2020-11-23

Any idea how many HP the VBM Mk3 will be? Just trying to plan filling my case and want to leave enough space for it

#108 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-11-23

It is too soon to release any specs for Visionary MKII modules.

#109 — sean · 2020-11-26

Is there another batch of Arch coming yet before EOL or did that already happen?

#110 — Z0NK0UT · 2020-11-26

That already happened. It won’t be too long before a replacement arrives.

#111 — Robbertunist · 2021-06-17

It’s been a while since someone posted here but about 20hrs ago Lars posted something on Facebook that I think is relevant to this thread. Here’s a couple of Screenshots from the post as well as the URL.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/lzxindustries/permalink/1846070795564232/?anchor_composer=false

#112 — jwsmithwick1 · 2021-06-18

Rad! Thank you for sharing. I like how there 5v barrel connector is integrated on the PCB. That makes a lot more sense than having to remove the top board to use the barrel supply.

#113 — Robbertunist · 2021-06-23

Robbertunist wrote:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/lzxindustries/permalink/1846070795564232/?anchor_composer=false

A couple more screenshots from the above post & comments on Fakehook.

#114 — Rik_bS · 2021-06-23

I can’t help but see faces in objects

#115 — Robbertunist · 2021-06-24

Robbertunist wrote:

>>>

Flipping this one 90° to the right makes it look like a silicon dragon

@Rik_bS Well spotted!

Definitely the 12HP in black in the upright position has eyes & a cringing​:grimacing: mouth

#116 — phosphenes · 2021-06-24

Amazing how excited I got about a 3D render of a non-existent module! Really looking forward to when the Chromagnon has shipped and we can all start GASing for a new set of modules

#117 — FranzKappa · 2021-06-24

About time we can get our hands on the chromagnon.Also looking forward on details about the solarium and spritechild.

#118 — Robbertunist · 2021-07-13

Lars commented on a Facebook post about a week ago. I’ll only include a screenshot & the image he uploaded but I’ll copy the text tomorrow once I’m on my PC. Here’s a link to the thread.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/lzxindustries/permalink/1857301897774455/?anchor_composer=false

#119 — sean · 2021-07-21

Dropping some other WIP leaks from Lars via FB here. Not sure if they’ve been posted here/elsewhere on the forum yet.

The earlier two are from January. The last one is from this week. Interesting to see how modules develop over time (okay, only the Matrix is in all of them; but can also compare the earlier encoder sketches with what Rob posted above).

A lot of exciting stuff coming up!

#120 — jwsmithwick1 · 2021-07-22

The standalone dual gamma module is a really great idea.

#121 — reverselandfill · 2021-07-22

wow, a lot of interesting module names! I can’t wait to see all functions

#122 — FranzKappa · 2021-07-24

I‘m almost more excited about the verbs modules than chromagnon,solarium and spritechild.Give the cat some hugs from me.

#123 — Dimonster · 2021-07-26

looks like pretty nice desktop background

#125 — creatorlars · 2021-08-28

Do you know if Fortress will support HD sync

That’s a good question. It needs to be tested. I believe we used the LMH1980 (HD/SD) sync separator (good). I was going to say “we may need to add some new PLL divisor ratios to the pixel clock”, but I realized that all the timing is being generated directly off the sync separator resetting the internal oscillators. My expectation is that it will throw some expected ranges a little bit off, but will otherwise work OK. We need to start a “new sync modes compatibility status” thread I think?

#126 — rempesm · 2021-08-28

For whatever non-standard wonkiness was present in my experiments with Brian McKenna’s VS010 HD sync generator, I was able to get Fortress to sync to 1080p60 with a H/V → CSync circuit. The H sync oscillator did bend a little bit at the tops and bottoms of the frame but I suspect that was something else in the breadboard mess I had rigged up for it. It was stable, in any case.

#127 — creatorlars · 2021-08-28

For whatever non-standard wonkiness was present in my experiments with Brian McKenna’s VS010 HD sync generator, I was able to get Fortress to sync to 1080p60 with a H/V → CSync circuit. The H sync oscillator did bend a little bit at the tops and bottoms of the frame but I suspect that was something else in the breadboard mess I had rigged up for it. It was stable, in any case.

That sounds very promising!

#128 — Marizu · 2021-08-29

With regards to the naming of the new modules…

Is it only me that reads FKG as something very different and very rude?

#129 — Agawell · 2021-08-29

No @Marizu - we all spotted it but were either too polite to mention it, or thought it would be funny… plug it into the FKG module!

#130 — wednesdayayay · 2021-08-29

fkg it

we’ll do it live

#131 — creatorlars · 2021-08-29

WTFKG are y’all talking about

#132 — wednesdayayay · 2021-08-29

#133 — phosphenes · 2021-11-12

creatorlars wrote:

Cadet series (we’ll keep selling until the end of the year, but these will be replaced entirely by diy variants of Visionary Mk2. > > edit:> > We’ll continue to offer Cadets 5 thru 8.)

Any updates on another run on Cadets 5 - 8?

#134 — Rik_bS · 2021-11-12

Oh and Castles too?!

#135 — Z0NK0UT · 2021-11-12

The Cadet series will not be restocked. At some point a refreshed Cadet series will be announced.

The Castle series is currently in stock.

#136 — petro · 2021-11-13

creatorlars wrote:

We need to start a “new sync modes compatibility status” thread I think?

sounds like a plan , hey what about Castle ADC , Castle D Flip FLops , and other castles , are these likely to work in HD format cheers

#137 — Robbertunist · 2022-01-09

Yesterday Lars posted some really nice images of photos (from TBC2) being processed by the DSG3 & ESG3

https://m.facebook.com/creatorlars/posts/pcb.1999054430265867/

There’s a second post on there with less photos.

#139 — creatorlars · 2022-01-09

Thanks for reposting that! I have been thinking of starting some “image gallery” posts here, specific to combinations of specific modules, trying to demonstrate visually the range of potential output. Do you think that’s useful?

#141 — wednesdayayay · 2022-01-09

ffmpeg is once again the answer

way to be @7pip

#144 — Robbertunist · 2022-01-10

Thanks for posting the images @7pip

Posting a link is one thing (&arguably bad as it directs a person away from here) but what you’ve done is absolutely next level.

For anyone wondering how it’s done quickly rather than downloading every image as I would have, here’s a link to a new post by 7pip detailing the FFMPEG code.

I assume it’s Linux only because of a Terminal for inputting command lines & such, hopefully I’m very wrong./forum/t/3655/

#146 — banyek · 2022-01-10

I am so happy to see the Gen3 modules coming together! Cannot wait to ART-3 - a question: @creatorlars mentioned that the Shape Generator can “follow” nicely an input image file - I was wondering if the ART-3 could do “the same”.

#147 — creatorlars · 2022-01-11

banyek wrote:

he Shape Generator can “follow” nicely an input image file - I was wondering if the ART-3 could

Hi! They are not exactly the same in that regard – let me know if this is a good explanation.

– ART3 you can think of as a spatial function. It’s purpose is to define a space (using its own internal ramp generators) or modify a space (using external ramp/shape/whatever shources.) So it’s more like the view or camera perspective itself.

– DSG3 you can think of as a texture function. It’s purpose is to create a pattern or shape or some kind of object inside of a space. It can generate that pattern inside of its own local coordinates (internal ramp generators) or it can do so inside the space of external coordinates – perhaps from an ART3.

So to put it more simply, ART3 is the camera viewing the object, and DSG3 is the object being viewed by the camera. In a basic patch, ART3’s outputs go to DSG3’s inputs.

And to imply more complex relationships – you can break these rules or chain things endlessly, since in either case, the IO is an analog voltage between 0V and 1V.

For example: Want to create a “space” inside of a broken mirror ? And then print a pattern inside that mirror’s fragmented shards? Then patch DSG3 as the “space” and use ART3 to change the reflection angle instead of using them the other way around.

Or, want two camera guys sitting on a car in motion? ART3 #1 is the car (ie “global coordinates”), it’s output is patched into ART3 #2 and ART3 #3 (which represent the camera views of the objects in motion with the car, which are relative to the position of the car itself.)

So when the car moves, the camera guys move with it. But the camera guys can move independently from each other.

So, would ART3 create the same kind of colorizer looks as DSG3 does? Not really. It’s all the shape modifiers in DSG3 that make that multi-band texture wrapped look (the wavefolders and log/expo amplifiers.)

#148 — banyek · 2022-01-11

Thanks @creatorlars , this was a good explanation! I have never got to use a Shapechanger, but I do have Cadet IV Ramps, Arch & Staircase which covers some of the DSG3 functionality, plus a circle and rectangular set of analog wipes from my video mixer, which I mainly intend to transform with this module. I was just curious what kind of effects would ART3 produce if I plugged a camera signal (or image) - I remember the Shapechanger video of @Johnnywoods which only produced some textures once it was input (or modulated?) by a camera image.

I guess it will also be greatly interesting to transform these shapes and modulate Topogram with them as well!

Thanks again for the hard work & input!

#150 — joem · 2022-01-13

Love the new 3 Patches video! As always, it gave me a lot of ideas for my own patching even though I don’t have most of the modules featured.

It occurred to me while watching this the SMX3 covers a lot (or all?) of the functions that Passage used to. Is this correct, or are there things Passage does that this doesn’t? And is this the nearest thing to Passage planned for gen3? (I slept on getting a Passage but it seems pretty invaluable so I’m trying to figure out what I should get in its place.)

#151 — creatorlars · 2022-01-13

joem wrote:

It occurred to me while watching this the SMX3 covers a lot (or all?) of the functions that Passage used to. Is this correct, or are there things Passage does that this doesn’t?

The missing function is that there are no static bias controls on SMX3 – it is a grid of gain only controls. But depending on where you’re going next in the patch, the bias controls may just end up redundant. For example, if your SMX3 mix is going straight into ESG3 – that already has bias controls. No additional offset processor is needed.

There are also cases in which you want a pure multiplier matrix (like colorspace conversions, for me, are much easier to understand with a raw 3X3 control matrix and no additional controls on the module. It’s nice to encapsulate that in one spot.)

So there is, at a minimum, two separate types of modules that will at least be getting one representative in the gen3 lineup that apply:

1. One is very simple in concept and potentially affordable to offer, the color matte generator. This will generate RGB offsets (and may have some tricks up it’s sleeve in how to do so, or might be very simple – 3 knobs, 3 output jacks.) You can take those outputs and mix them with SMX3 or with other modules to do brightness based offsets. The idea is to separate “creation of the RGB value” (offset controls) from “RGB mixers” (gain controls) so that it’s easier to tune the system.
2. The other type would be an RGB blending operator module – similar to FKG3 you’ll have two sets of RGB inputs and a number of ways to combine them – we’ll get Marble Index’s blending modes imported to a module like this at some point (so at least one “advanced RGB mixes” module.)

But these are just current ideas. There is a holistic video synthesis environment I really like in these first 6 modules (TBC2, ESG3, DSG3, FKG3, SMX3, DWO3). So I want to make sure we take some time to fully patch these and get feedback before committing to what the next set would be.

#152 — joem · 2022-01-13

creatorlars wrote:

There is a holistic video synthesis environment I really like in these first 6 modules (TBC2, ESG3, DSG3, FKG3, SMX3, DWO3). So I want to make sure we take some time to fully patch these and get feedback before committing to what the next set would be.

Definitely! When you first showed off the panels and explained them a while back, that was one of my first realizations… Just with those you can do so much awesome stuff. I’m looking forward to it.