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Suggestions for Switchers / Routing Matrices

Category: Unknown · Tags: — · Posts: 35

#1 — vhsdestroyer · 2021-05-20

Been thinkin a lot lately about how to patch in ways to make the signal flow as variable as possible. Looking at a couple switchers and routing modules. I have two strong contenders I’m considering at the moment.

Doepfer A-150-8 Octal Manual / Voltage Controlled Programmable Switches

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Perfect Circuit

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https://www.perfectcircuit.com/doepfer-a-150-8.htmlThe A-150-8 from Doepfer is an incredibly useful and versatile utility module

Price: 180Brand: Doepfer

Link: A-150-8 Octal Manual / Voltage Controlled Programmable Switches

Seems like a very solid option for routing multiple sources around with manual and CV triggers. Different operation modes is a definite plus.

SSSR Labs SM010 Matrixarchate

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sssrlabs.com

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https://www.sssrlabs.com/store/sm010/Link: SSSR Labs SM010 Matrixarchate – SSSR Labs

Configurable I/O. Preset recall/programming. Have heard this works pretty well with video. Available (not at the moment) as a DIY kit.

If anybody has any recommendations I would love to hear them. Again the goal is to route a patch through a module to allow as much variability as possible. Thanks.

#2 — 337is · 2021-05-20

There was talk at one point of WMD releasing a full video bandwidth version of this:

WMD

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https://wmdevices.com/products/sequential-switch-matrixOur take on an essential module Four inputs can be routed with individual buttons to four outputs. Those routing settings are stored in an array of matrices that can be sequenced or controlled with CV. Preset routing, feedback loops, chop sequences,...

Price: USD 329

Link: Sequential Switch Matrix

Bummed it never happened.

#3 — rempesm · 2021-05-20

I’ve used both and prefer the Matrixarchate. The Doepfer A-150-8 definitely blurs video signals more than the Matrixarchate but is fine up until a bit farther above V sync / audio range–it’s much less of a smear than other audio modules I’ve tried. I think it uses a DG409 for the switcher IC.

The switches operate into audio range so you can get scrolling horizontal bars between inputs. You might need a scaler to hit the switches’ voltage thresholds. The immediacy of programming multiple switches to actuate with one trigger with persistent memory and no need to save its configuration with a button combo is nice. Its layout felt more immediately playable out of the two.

Matrixarchate perceptibly blurs detailed external video by a couple of SD pixels so don’t expect to switch crystal clear portraits with it. It works perfectly fine for slightly less detailed SD images or lower frequency content still within H sync range down to DC. Beyond its better image fidelity, where it really shines is its doubled amount of inputs (these are bidirectional so can be outputs just like on the Doepfer A-150-8) and you can sequence completely different complex routings instantly without complex logic signals.

It uses a MT8816 for the switcher IC. You might need a scaler to use its Trigger input but I’ve had success with V sync square waves out of Prismatic Ray. It only responds up to somewhat low audio rates but you can get scrolling horizontal bars. Its button interface is okay but doesn’t feel quite as intuitive as the Doepfer A-150-8–there are a couple of function+button combos to remember.

If your goal is being able to reroute one physical patch with as much variety as possible, would definitely opt for the Matrixarchate.

It also speaks I2C so there are some interesting possibilities for dynamically accessing its matrix. Particularly curious if anyone can work out how to get Befaco VCMC’s I2C firmware talking to it. Mapping the faders and buttons to set/reset crosspoints for generative routing under voltage control would be fun.

#4 — Rik_bS · 2021-05-20

I’m pretty sure I put out this idea with a positive response previously…

How about a 19" rack video matrix like a Kramer or Extron unit - would they handle animation rate CV?

#5 — vhsdestroyer · 2021-05-20

Sweet! Thanks for replying in so much detail! I was thinking either module could be a bit off at the higher end of the frequency range. I sort of figured that some amount of blur would be unavoidable. With the Matrixarchate, the layout looks a little less than intuitive. I was hoping the save/recall function might be particularly useful but nobody I’ve talked to has said it’s especially great or anything. I am hoping the DIY kits pop up somewhere soon. I do also have the VCMC in my rack so that would be super sick to have them working together.

#6 — rempesm · 2021-05-20

Save/recall is super useful for editing/deconstructing one routing preset and instantly returning to it (F1 + Revert). I have several routing presets setup so I can quickly get the basis for a pattern synthesis or external processing patch going without having to set up the foundation for it everytime.

#7 — rempesm · 2021-05-20

Rik_bS wrote:

I’m pretty sure I put out this idea with a positive response previously…>>>> How about a 19" rack video matrix like a Kramer or Extron unit - would they handle animation rate CV?

You’d need something that translates CV → MIDI → RS-232. I think Tim Caldwell had something called transcribe in the works that would let you do this (at least the MIDI → RS-232 part).

I’ve spammed Extron matrix mixers with RS-232 commands through a USB->serial dongle in the past and recall it does have some slight lag on responding to each command.

#8 — Robbertunist · 2021-05-27

vhsdestroyer wrote:

I am hoping the DIY kits pop up somewhere soon.

@wednesdayayay

How about posting the photo of the front panel of @Fox’s Passive Switcher (that you concepted, right?) that you’ve recently built? It’s a simple unit with no fancy bells & whistles but might be just the trick for some of us on here

:metal:t3:

#9 — wednesdayayay · 2021-05-28

IMG_0579

this is a great little unit!

it is really nice to have the ability to go 2:1 or 1:2

#10 — vhsdestroyer · 2021-05-28

let me hit up fox i think ill have to snag one…

#11 — meudiademorte · 2021-06-01

Can you give more Infos on the module and how it works? 3 x 3 channel switcher?

#12 — rempesm · 2021-06-01

It’s a 4PDT passive switch.

So you can put 4 separate signals into the Circle jacks and 4 other signals into the Square jacks and switch whether all 4 of the Circle or Square jacks show up on the Triangle jacks. That’s basically 2:1 x 4.

The other route is feeding 4 signals into the Triangle jacks and switching between them showing up on the Circle or Square jacks. That’s 1:2 x 4.

#13 — wednesdayayay · 2021-06-01

rempesm gave a great answer!

you could do a YRGB signal or just a bunch of different modulations

This kind of module allows for easy large changes within a patch without having to do a bunch of extra patching.

I’ve got a bunch of different styles of 2:1 / 1:2 switches in the system singles doubles and now 2 quads. They are so handy!

I like using the singles for switching between POS & NEG outs from polar fringe

#14 — Kent · 2022-03-08

I’m curious as to whether anyone is using a matrix router or switcher to connect multiple outboard processors (BPMC, Color Correctors, etc.) to their systems. The central hub would be a Roland/Edirol V-8 and that would connect to the matrix/switcher on one slot and then I could easily patch items to it without having to clear desk space, deal with cables,etc. It could also speed up the exploration of ideas.

I’d like to set up all of my composite devices on a patchbay type of system. I guess that one could use an RCA or BNC patchbay but am thinking that some sort of matrix, with memory/recall, would be pretty slick and useful.

Any thoughts?

#15 — wednesdayayay · 2022-03-08

here are a couple posts about our previous rack mount setup (everything is apart currently in preparation for a move)

things have changed just a bit

we consolidated the whole jangle of small devices on the HDMI input section into a single 4x4 HDMI matrix switcher.

there is a composite 6x6 switcher.

we’ve got a component switcher on the way (4x2 it seems like you can get giant component matrices or small ones and I don’t want to dedicate a huge space so small it is).

a multi input switcher kramer 719

we bough a second 719 for dual direct multi into TBC2 but it was damaged in shipping. We are going to wait until TBC2s are in hand before seeking another one (they have been sitting ~20-35 for a while)

additionally we have two VHS decks (one record one playback)

one SVHS deck

one extron 300a > BMD hyper deck shuttle 2 for out high quality capture

a cheap AV > SD card recorder is on the through output

so at any given time even without a computer close by we can record onto 4 different types of media at once(SD card, SSD, VHS, SVHS this also covers most connector types…composite, Svideo, Component>HDMI)

we did our whole vidicon presentation with this setup

being able to feed the system output back into something like structure (VC expansion) / wave_pool / Scrawl was lots of fun and usually showed up in the top right corner via PiP.

it is so satisfying to completely change up the workflow of the system by just pressing a couple buttons.

the V440 was the heart of that setup with a V4 off to the side

Now I have a proper tower rack to mount all this stuff in.

4x4 HDMI matrixIN

OUT

4x2 component matrixwhat was a passive 4x1 component switch

will be replaced by a 4x2 component matrix

IN

OUT

6x6 composite matrixIN

OUT

Extron 719 multi switcherIN

OUT

1 V440 HD

2 Visual cortex

V4IN

OUT

V440SD

I think on the first input on the SD side I was plugged into both the Svid and the composite inputs so that you can quickly switch between types of inputs to allow for more overall.

IN

OUT

HDIN

OUT

I’m excited to get it all set back up!

#17 — Z0NK0UT · 2022-03-08

I love this:

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#18 — wednesdayayay · 2022-03-08

what is the goal of a system layout drawing if not to broad scope it to the point of being a sigil?

I didn’t get all the way there with this set.

hopefully with the new setup!

Belial is our little basket buddy V4 PRV monitor

@Z0NK0UT

maxresdefault

its name is belial because it reminds us of this little creep from the basket case movies

#19 — Z0NK0UT · 2022-03-08

Now I love it even more!

#20 — sean · 2022-03-08

I’m in the process of setting up a rack to make interconnections easier. Component video especially I want to be a lot more streamlined, so I’ll have the Kramer matrix pictured here routing that in/out/around. And I’ll use the patchbay for composite video.

IMG_9636

I’ve found that I have mostly switched to a component workflow (main video into system and out for monitoring/recording), so that will sort of be the “permanent,” hardwired setup. And then outboard composite gear will work in on a more plug-in/out basis, as needed.

Not pictured is the CRT I use for component monitoring/rescanning. It’s on a shelf to the right.

#21 — Rik_bS · 2022-03-08

Yep! a matrix switch is invaluable for mashing together stand-alone processors.

I have two 16x16 units, though only need one of them now, and love the flexibility of routing through multiple mixers and processors.

Here’s a glimpse of me “at the controls” using the switch to make some sense of the mess

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#22 — Kent · 2022-03-10

Thanks, everyone. I just grabbed a Kramer VS-88V for 85€.

I appreciate the insight and look into your setups. Rik, I can’t see you as you are camouflaged against your screens!

:rofl:

#23 — Tundra_Tides · 2023-01-09

vhsdestroyer wrote:

**> SSSR Labs SM010 Matrixarchate> **

I use an 8x8 matrix switcher for all my composite sources, whether to feed them to external mixers, to fluxus duo and/or cortex, or for feedback loops. It’s great and saves so much time faffing with cables!

It has memory recall as well. Love it. I just used it for a live performance, button mashing and changing sources all night. It’s an Elca MX88 (i also have a kramer one but it’s not as ‘performance’ friendly as the buttons are small)

Screenshot 2023-01-09 at 20.44.06

#24 — Tundra_Tides · 2023-01-09

Has anyone recently discovered/produced any other video rate switchers?

I’ve stumbled upon this post for the second/third time and still haven’t bought a Matrixarchate or A-150-8

:laughing:

#25 — nerdware · 2023-01-09

I used to see loads of switchers on eBay, but I’ve not looked for years. Many were matrix switchers for full component and sync for VGA. Other matrix mixers were composite or S-Video only.

#26 — rempesm · 2023-01-09

Tundra_Tides wrote:

Has anyone recently discovered/produced any other video rate switchers?

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Foxing Hour

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https://foxinghour.com/products/shutter-triple-2-1-video-multiplexerSHUTTER is a video rate multiplexer featuring three independently controllable multiplexers. This allows users to switch between two full color RGB signals together with one control voltage or separately with up to three control voltages at...

Price: USD 32.00

Link: SHUTTER - Triple 2:1 Video Multiplexer

#27 — wednesdayayay · 2023-01-10

another rack mount answer

I’ve been looking at a certain lineup for a while. You can find really good deals on ebay.

it just depends on what kind of system you are wanting to put together.

I thought about replacing a couple of my matrices with one of these but honestly I’d rather wait to re-rack everything until the next time I upgrade. At this point I think my next upgrade will be something along the lines of ATEM Constellation | Blackmagic Design most likely the low or mayyyybe middle range

I love the idea about having multiple freely assignable outputs and then with the middle range and higher you are essentially getting 2+ entire switchers that share inputs whose outputs can be routed into and around each other however you want.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325365386451

ebay.comhttps://www.ebay.com/splashui/challenge?ap=1&appName=orch&ru=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F224801263203&iid=8e96f5c2-ca41-4821-af22-68242b3b1c8c&iim=qMjE2Lh&iia=HSjY2LjNt&iiz=oypguMzY*VYJLink: Pardon Our Interruption...

these two are closer to one of the units I’ve already got (kramer 719) lots of various inputs and an output that can do VGA/component with stuff like PiP, freeze, hue, sat, brightness etc… My original thought for TBC2 was to have two of these units. I had actually bought a second (a 728 I believeO unit but it had several stuck front interface buttons which kept it in a perpetual OSD loop not matter what I tried. There is a lot of variation so you can probably find one with the collection of inputs that matters most to you.

ebay.comhttps://www.ebay.com/splashui/challenge?ap=1&appName=orch&ru=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F314046020832&iid=f03419b4-aedb-422c-9be9-b7f83ff2dba7&iim=uMjE2Lf&iia=HnjY2LjeF&iiz=YmoguMzY*psTLink: Pardon Our Interruption...

this was my second thought…why have two different switchers when you can just rack mount one bigger switcher that gives you two independent outputs! It is a bit bigger and offers a lot of multi inputs. I saw a version a while back that has HDMI inputs rather than DVI but I haven’t seen those pop up as much

ebay.comhttps://www.ebay.com/splashui/challenge?ap=1&appName=orch&ru=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F324400471294&iid=64bf63d1-0ec9-4dc9-8a2b-70f8e1adfa03&iim=TMjE2Lp&iia=fZjY2Ljnz&iiz=wXzguMzY*ravLink: Pardon Our Interruption...

ebay.comhttps://www.ebay.com/splashui/challenge?ap=1&appName=orch&ru=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F125662298995&iid=4e52b855-72ca-468c-8cd7-bd62c640a8cc&iim=zMjE2LY&iia=nzjY2LjBE&iiz=MlgguMzY*YTULink: Pardon Our Interruption...

I hadn’t seen this type of unit until this morning when I was looking for some examples. Honestly these would be the move for me if I hadn’t found those constellation switchers. This seems like a fantastic way to incorporate SD/HD systems together.

they are like 5 switches stuffed into one package that drive another scaled switcher. So if you were sending your composite input through to the scaled output you could also be using the unscaled output to go somewhere else in the system.

lots of the newer units have USB inputs so look out for that if it is something you are interested in. Also make sure to do yourself a favor and read the manuals of any unit like this you are thinking about incorporating into your system to save yourself time/money/headache

#28 — nerdware · 2023-01-10

Yes, those are the kinds of matrix switches I’ve seen on eBay. The Constellation will be much more expensive, but it includes effects that the Kramer switchers don’t, like keyers. For example, (I suspect) you could use the control software to set the internal t-bar to 50% (or whatever) and add up to 10 lines of delay. I imagine that would be a very useful feedback combo.

#29 — Tundra_Tides · 2023-01-11

This!! Exactly what I was after

I’ve been happy with my switches out of the rack so looking for options inside/lzx standard

Although with the introduction of HD workflow, maybe it’s time to consider some new bits…

I’ll look into those units you posted, some look pretty cool. I do very much like being able to route multiple sources in and to multiple outputs, so will probably look for the same kind of thing

#30 — dryodryo · 2023-01-29

Looked at one of those Kramer routers and saw it had “CV” inputs. Got excited for a second… do these have external voltage control of some kind? Can I automate switching from the modular rig?

No. They meant “CVBS”.

#31 — Z0NK0UT · 2023-01-30

Kramer gets rid of the BS.

:tm:

#32 — Neil · 2024-01-13

Hiya, hope you can help… and please forgive the random query.

I have one of those MX88 matrix switchers which I’m very happy with. Unfortunately I’ve never had a user manual for it. Would you happen to have a PDF of the manual you could email please? Or a maybe link to one online?

I’ve emailed the manufacturers and so far have had no response.

Many thanks

Neil

#33 — Tundra_Tides · 2024-01-16

Absolutely! I got this email from them in response to the Elca MX88 Matrix Switcher (writing in full so it’s easier for others to find)

www.elca-italy.com/download/sw/MCS/MCS201.zip

OS: Windows 98SE / XP.

Unzip *.zip into a empty disk.

Run setup.exe to start the installation of the software.

Manual with RS232 commands:

www.elca-italy.com/download/sw/MX/MX88_E4R1-EN.PDF

#34 — Neil · 2024-01-16

Thank you so much!

The domain in those links appears to be down, but adding the manual name to elca.eu I managed to find the right one… couldn’t have done it without your help, so thank you again

For any one else’s reference, it’s at https://www.elca.eu/download/sw/MX/MX88_E4R1-EN.PDF

#35 — fairplay · 2024-01-22

dryodryo wrote:

Can I automate switching from the modular rig?

…you might want to check out transcribe from @cyberboy666 : it allows to control Extron- and Kramer-switchers via MDI-to-RS232…

…so with the help/detour of/via a CV-to-MIDI-Module those switchers could be controlled from the modular…

image

underscores.shophttps://underscores.shop/product/_transcribe_/for research and distribution of accessible open-source video-art making instruments

Link: underscores - open video hardware label

#36 — Tundra_Tides · 2024-02-28

Thank you for linking this, definitely going to pick one up. Perfect for using external controllers/sequencers and linking to all the classic video gear!