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so this is the layout for the keying section display?

there are 8 hv ramps (HV>),
4 described “patches” (>XY),
and 12 modes for the porter duff compositor (RGB>)
that leaves 3 options for both DST LUMA (XYK>) and DST CHRO (>RGB)

Screen Shot 2020-08-07 at 9.01.57 AM896×656 183 KB

in the signal flow both the DST LUMA and CHRO have 3:1 mux

with the names of the buttons would make sense

luma
key, shape and max (assuming that is the 1v white)
chroma
src, xy, and none (assuming that is the 0v black)

I’m feeling some wheels clicking into place about this layout

it seems like this trick (seen in the video below) I stumbled onto the other day with the v440 mixer and switching between two sources luma/chroma combinations was not a coincidence but maybe mental preparation for chromagnon

I was looking at this and thinking a similar thing just a few weeks ago. I didn’t bother working out all the details, but I realised a Chromagnon would work better for me than a whole lot of other modules and/or external devices, like a V440. Every time I look at that mixer, I come to the same conclusion. This signal flow/generation/processing explanation confirms it. Thanks, Lars.

However, the real big selling point, for me, is the power and case. Clean power with a stand-alone case wins. If I can also rack it on 84hp rails, that’s another winning feature. Chromagnon looks like it has all of that, but I’ll hold back my excitement until its available from a UK shop.

Thanks.

Neat!
Any idea when the first video will drop?

The first video will drop after a complete Chromagnon unit is finished and delivered to Johnny Woods. Right now the team is finishing TBC2.

Super stoked! I’d love to make some examples too when my first day pre-order arrives.

So helpful! The anticipation has been stoked.

A note on Chromagnon’s video i/o:
It will support “240p/288p/480p/576p/720p/1080p30. We could even add some timing profiles to match some weirder formats as well. On the rear we have an 8 position dip switch. 1 switch turns sync auto-detect on/off – with it on, system genlock switches to match the format of the TBC input source if no sync input is present. Auto-detect is always on for the sync/genlock input, and that overrides any TBC input source. The other 7 bits select up to 128 different video standards. So in the case of using Chromagnon with no input, or as master sync gen, you will select your default video format with these switches.”

1080p video feedback possibilities ermahgerd!!! Can’t wait.

Does this mean it will sync to arbitrary rates that fit the data rate but are not specified? If not I would love to see standard SMPTE rates like 24p, 23.98p, 29.97p, 59.94i, 59.94p

I wasn’t familiar with “Porter-Duff”. Upon googling I found this image (it happens to have 12 examples )

Will most of these compositions be essentially possible?

This corresponds with the 12 compositor modes available in Chromagnon.

Thanks for clarifying, very exciting!

Lars, quoted from FB comments, says:

The number of frame synchronizers in a system you need is equal to the number of input sources minus one. So with Chromagnon + Visual Cortex, you can have two external sources. One is the master timing reference, and the other is frame synchronized by Chromagnon’s TBC. Key to the Automata series concept is that all units include a TBC and a 2:1 RGB function. Meaning each device can mix itself into an external source. RGB inputs are separate from the decoder/TBC section. Yes, you can feed the outputs back through the TBC in feedback mode while still using the RGB inputs.
Visual Cortex locks itself to the timing of an external source. That external source can also be fed to an input decoder, so you can patch the video through the system. Visual Cortex has to slave itself to the external timing in order for this to work. Chromagnon locks itself to the timing of an external source via the genlock input (or not, can be free running). Where it differs is that the input decoder has a TBC/frame sync this time. So the external sync/genlock source and the external video source don’t have to be one in the same. Meaning we can sync Chromagnon #2 to Chromagnon #1, while both of them can frame sync an asynchronous external video feed, resulting in two synchronous external input channels. So technically Chromagnon has two external inputs (Genlock/Sync Input and External Video inputs). Whereas Visual Cortex only has one (Input Decoder and Genlock/Sync Generator must be the same).

so with a visual cortex, chromagnon, TBC2 setup you could have 4 external sources?

Correct. TBC2 and Chromagnon share the same video input platform.

oh wow things are going to get wild

^Agreed!! Had to jump on the pre-order bandwagon!!!

It’s stated that the chromagnon will replace the functionality of the polar fringe, yet no joystick, I’m not all too sure about how this will work. So I’m wondering if this is going to be built in to the modulation section. Also does this mean an eventual discontinuation of polar fringe?

here is some info from lars on facebook

"Note that with Chroma (PbPr) to XY inputs, the shape generator is producing a chroma key.

Since the XY processor performs at video rate bandwidths, it can process the PbPr (Chroma) channels of the input video source as UV colorspace (which is a two dimensional plane.) For example, X & Y Position become PbPr offsets (hue selection). Rotation becomes Hue shift, and Gain becomes Saturation. So to process chroma we first convert RGB to PbPr, then feed those to the X & Y inputs. Then we take the X & Y outputs and convert them back to RGB (along with a luma component). This is complex in the block diagram, but easy on the synth – you just select “Chroma” as the “Vector Mode.”

So imagine this (UV at constant luminance) as the “2D plane” that is being processed/generated by the XY Processor, when we feed in Chroma as the vector source.

Yes, that is the key idea behind this instrument! General purpose XY processor (analogue computer style) with a lot of complex interfacing that allows its use as color processor, colorizer, shape/key generator, vector rescan driver, etc. I hope it gets people to think about how all of these applications are driven by similar math at their core. There is also a Polar-to-Cartesian processor in the XY Processor (the “modulation vector.”) This can take angle and distance inputs and give XY outputs. The Angle input can be used for a direct voltage to Hue function, which allows for a Luma-to-Hue map colorizer."

Starting to wonder why all the juicy info gets posted to Facebook? Thank you to the folks who are reposting it here, I’m sure I’m not the only one ethically opposed to having a Facebook account. (I was on there a regrettable 9 years)

I think it’s because people are on it all the time anyway. It’s designed to be addictive, after all.

An addiction my life is so much better without now. Don’t want to preach or belittle anyone here, but the idea that Facebook is something we need in our lives is an illusion, and I’ve been super great without it for over two years. The fact that LZX has this forum site is most supreme, considering the current era of some companies main presence only being on Facebook or Twitter. Thank you!

Totally understood, but used as a tool and not a portal to ego, facobook can be used as a forum for all the forms you are interested in. In my opinion of course. Personally i use it for many types of synthesis discussions and or informational groups, audio, video synthesis, drum machines. Sound design. Anything can be a tool or a distraction, it’s how it’s used. With all due respect.

A little update for those not on Facebook; Lars posted,
“RevB units were built and passed all tests so far. This is after a lengthy review of all the RevA boards over the Summer. Jonah, Nick and the assembly team have been kicking ass on that and just getting on top of production prep. I’m holed away still with my software project for tbc2/Chromagnon/mempal, and almost ready to show it off. This week I also need to dig in to the RevB review, during which I hope to start showing some video.”

Austin James just asked a couple of questions regarding the #Chromagnon’s 1080 output & it’s composite output on the FB page, I can’t copy the text so here’s a screenshot.

IMG_20201011_192542668×726 121 KB

@LILWILLY, you beat me to the line

i took the robbertunity

Note to self, posts must be 20 characters long

Some ILDA ideas from Lars:
“Radiator into Chromagnon adds an additional analog rotator/processor/recolorizer to the ILDA signal chain. So you could use it to add an additional rotary access with direct displacement via audio and CV.”

“…there are multiple YUV/RGB converters in there. It’s going to process whatever it’s fed as continuous 0-5V RGB and +/-5V XY voltages. There’s all sorts of neat tricks. For example you could use the chrominance of the RGB channels as a Cartesian displacement vector for the XY path.”

Hi I think I saw something about being able to scale the output to an oscilloscope when working with x-y graphics. Can you also invert the output or would I need to do that elsewhere? Im looking for an oscilloscope but some has a z axis that lowers the brightness with higher voltage.

I believe the gain controls for X/Y/Luma do not invert, so you would have to invert the signal after Chromagnon.

Am I understanding correctly, that I would be able to connect a video source such as a VHS deck as an input to Chromagnon without a TBC in between, and it would time base correct it for a clean picture?

Chromagnon incorporates its own TBC at the input, allowing you to send in full color video from signals like a VCR.

How easy would it be to do the camera-at-a-screen feedback workflow on Chromagnon? The one the Vidiot is known for.

More specifically, would it be possible to have a chain like [external video in > Chromagnon processing > video to screen > camera > feedback into Chromagnon > capture solution out]?

It seems like it should, but I’m not 100% able to tell from the info that’s out there.

If you’re planning to work with Chromagnon as a standalone unit, it would only sync to one external video input. Your second camera wouldn’t be synced to Chromagnon when you try to feed it back into the module. Probably would still look neat as a feedback source but you’d need to use something like the upcoming TBC2 or other means of genlocking your equipment to get additional synced inputs.

I’ve had pretty good success with using Extron VSC700 boxes as a cheaper alternative for full color synced inputs and have posted a few times on the forum about them.

EDIT: Oh wait, that’s not quite correct–I’ll eat some of my words here.

Since there is a RCA genlock input on the back and an external video input on the front that feeds into a frame synchronizer, you could feasibly loop your external video into the genlock input to get Chromagnon synchronized to that. Then put the other source into the external video input which will be frame synchronized.

You’d need to loop the external video going into the genlock input through the other RCA sync out connector and use some other type of video input module like Cadet III to condition the signal before patching it into Chromagnon. A RCA to 3.5MM adapter would work if you could strip the sync off the signal before patching it. Things might be a bit screwy otherwise.

If they’re asking about a set-up possible with Vidiot, I think they’re actually referring to a simple, single camera situation, no? So the signal flow would be:

Camera pointed at monitor > Chromagnon > Monitor + Capture

Processing possibilities are of course different than Vidiot, but that should work just fine.

And, indeed, since Chromagnon has multiple outputs — which I assume, like Visual Cortex, can be used at the same time — it will be easier to monitor and capture simultaneously (not that it is hard to make that happen with Vidiot but it does require something to distribute/pass the signal externally).

I should have clarified, I was thinking about combining that single camera workflow with an additional external video source. So a seed video goes in (such as gradient stills), gets processed, then goes back in as a feedback source as well.

Ah, okay. Well then, yes, you would need a second device to get that second external input into your system (same as you would with Vidiot).

Sync won’t really be as much of an issue with Chromagnon (as it is with Vidiot) because its external input has a built-in TBC.

1 video mixer at the end of the chain mixing/keying feedback with output

2 video mixer in front of chromagnon mixing/keying between feedback and source

3 take a 1/8 LZX standard video signal into one of the many video rate modulation inputs (assuming you’ve got modules that produce those signals)

4 camera -> mult -> chromagnon sync, dirty mixer A channel
still source -> dirty mixer B channel
dirty mixer out -> chromagnon video input
because things are sync’d together I would imagine you’d get the result you are after with this! I could be misunderstanding how those two inputs work with each other though

those would be the places that I would start messing around with that kind of workflow

Follow up question since you guys are so helpful and I’m struggling with capture options. Chromagnon has distinct Chroma/Luma/Shape modes. What type of workflow should I look for to run a single video through Chromagnon multiple times?

For example: [external video > Luma pass through Chromagnon > (record) shape pass > (record) Chroma pass > digital capture]. I suspect you could get amazing results from varying the order of operations and compositing modes on Chromagnon. But I can’t think of an elegant way to do this.

Something like [DVD player > Chromagnon > Ambery analog to HDMI convertor > Atomos Ninja 2 > computer > burn DVD > repeat]. That sounds too slow. Or maybe two shuttle recorders, rotating which is the input and output?

What type of workflows have people used for this? Anything from dirt cheap to primo…I’m stretched on budget but willing to save up for upgrades eventually. It’d be a shame not to take advantage of 1080i60 component outs on Chromagnon.

It might be easier to use a source that also records, so you can switch between your recorder and source in the chain. For example, 2x Atmos Ninjas, or a DVD recorder and a DVD player, or two laptops, or an Andor and a laptop, or any combination of these.

Maybe better to continue this discussion in one of the capture threads, as Chromagnon isn’t necessarily relevant to the methodology. You could apply this workflow to any processor.

So I’ve been thinking about how to use TBC2 and chromagnon to distribute sync between two cases. TBC2 has an rca sync out, so would sending this output to chromagnon on its video input sync the two cases?

I’m going over the 12 compositor modes and trying to match them up with the examples posted.

this post is showing some interesting data about how these modes will work

Screen Shot 2020-08-07 at 8.49.49 AM1500×1232 212 KB

Is this the way the modes are laid out?
I’m assuming “clear” should be “add”

going over the data and matching the names up really helps be able to spins some more wheels about chromagnon.

I’d like to do a module layout with graphviz to approximate the navigator,shapechanger,staircase,polar fringe,mapper layout chromagnon can be.

I’m having a hard time fully understanding the polar fringe (is it used in the 12 compositor modes?) mapper (is it in the RGB to YUV conversion?) and staircase (I’m reading the 2d staircase explanation but don’t really get it) modules places in the patch.

I’m excited to understand it better!

also in preparation for the chromagnon I think it makes sense to try making a single modulation source that gets sent to many places in a patch. I personally haven’t really used that technique yet.

Hello all, on the fence about diving into video synthesis for some Rutt Etra visuals. I have a 12u on normal eurorack. Would the Chromagnon cover all the territory in the example patch on this site? Aside of course from the cctv and XY display? If not, what would I be lacking?

Chromagnon provides an all-in-one vector rescanning workflow. You would use the X/Y/Shape outputs (which will have rear panel trimmers to tailor the output to your vector monitor) into your X/Y/Z inputs.

More from Lars about the compositor:
[Chromagnon’s] Porter-Duff compositor is a 2-channel RGB mixer driven by two separate key sources controlling the gain of each channel. The key sources come from a few multiplexed min/max and summing amp circuits, so all the Porter-Duff logic is created there.
When both alpha channels are active, I expect a lot more negative space in the resulting composition in comparison to what we’re used to with raster patterns – since you have a multitude of ways to constrain two sources onto a black backdrop, and can easily avoid the “full frame wiggly rainbow square” look.

What I was trying to say was: avoiding the “full frame wiggly rainbow square” look. is overrated!

has Memory Palace similar power needed
to a Crohmagnon?

• 550 mA +12V
• 50 mA -12V
• 0 mA 5V

Chromagnon could pull as much as 1.5A (1500mA) on the positive rail. This is still an estimate and is on the high side of the possible range.

Was curious about Chromag — is it possible to combine the feedback path/mode with external inputs, or have the two interact in any way? Also, is there a way to switch between feedback and external input modes via CV (or USB)? Thanks

Feedback is considered an external input, so you wouldn’t be able to combine it with incoming video. Input sources are only selected manually, not via CV or USB.

You could do this with a video mixer, I’ve heard. Use the mixer to mix the Chromagnon output and the external video, then plug the mixer output into the Chromagnon input.

Definitely! You could even put other devices into that feedback path, too.

Oh yeah, great idea. I wonder if there’s a mixer out there that could work in this instance, while still preserving Chromag’s HD signal path?

The V4EX / V8EX can accept HD Component over the VGA connector with a breakout cable I believe.

Awesome. That sounds like a pretty dang powerful setup.

This is true, and often upscales the input coming in quite significantly, as it’s a full rgb signal, instead of composite. Really makes a difference when going hdmi out on the big screen on a proper cinema (no pun intended) projector…

Moral of the story, component out wherever possible.

The Chromagnon RGB inputs use the 1V LZX modular video standard. Some folks have used Extron gear (as illuminated in other threads) to send RGB signals directly. TBC2 has an optional VGA expander, but you would have to convert VGA to component if using only Chromagnon.

Puzzled by the signal flow graph…Chromagnon’s TBC section is separate from its RGB in/out, right? So if I wanted to use it as both a synth/processor and an input/output encoder, I could?

For example: plug Chromagnon RGB outs into other video modules, process process process, send the signal into Chromagnon RGB ins, then capture out of Chromagnon’s YPbPr?

Could I plug an external source into Chromagnon RCA, take from RGB out, process it with other modules, send it back into the RGB in, process it with Chromagnon, then capture from the RCA out?

It is a synth/processor with a single input section and a single output section. It is not a combo TBC module + output encoder module with separate IOs. The YPbPr/CVBS inputs are just one of the ways to use the input section. If you patch into the RGB inputs, it will override anything going into the YPbPr/CVBS inputs.

If you are using Chromagnon as the base for a modular system, you would not use it like you would use a traditional Encoder + TBC in an LZX system. It’s a self contained voice, and any modules would expand the internal section (represented by the 9x analog controls/CV inputs, HV outs, etc. – that is, the part of the signal path between the video input and video output.)

Could I plug an external source into Chromagnon RCA, take from RGB out, process it with other modules, send it back into the RGB in, process it with Chromagnon, then capture from the RCA out?

If you did this, the external source would be overridden/detached when you patched back to the RGB inputs. You could patch the RGB outs through other modules and then feed them back into the CV inputs though, to create parameter feedback. You could patch the HV outs into other modules, create shapes, then use those as inputs to the CV modulation as well.

That makes way more sense. So the workflow of [Chromagnon > RGB processing > HD output] will not work without an additional Automata instrumen or a future output encoder.

So if I want to expand on Chromagnon without a second Chromagnon, CV modules are the main thing to add for now? The HV outs are basically like a Shapechanger/Navigator output and would require an output encoder. I’m very curious to see what this CV feedback would look like, though.

For a “self contained Chromagnon system” you don’t need additional encoders or TBCs (video IO), but any generator/processor modules (DSG3 Dual Shape, DWO3, Dual Osc, FKG3 Keyer, SMX3 Matrix Mixer) would be great expansion options.

So there are RCA sync input and output jacks on the back?

On the front panel graphic, I see a lowercase “s” on the TBC RCA jacks … “Y/Gs”. I presume this is sync.

Can Chromagnon sync to the incoming component signal?

What is the RGB standard for the RCA inputs to the TBC? I assume it’s 1V p/p. Is RGsB sync on green supported?

Is it possible to use the composite RCA jack as a sync input? RGBS?

Thanks!

Yes.

Yes.

Study this diagram first:

image960×633 92.6 KB

Its front panel YPbPr inputs go directly to a TBC so not in the way you’re thinking. Even if you mult the Y from a YPbPr signal into Chromagnon’s rear sync input to genlock it from that and then also into the front panel YPbPr inputs, it’s still going through a frame buffer before being passed to the next stage. If your goal is to have Chromagnon genlocked to an external source and input a YPbPr signal into its 3.5mm RGB LZX 0-1V standard connections while bypassing the TBC, you would need a separate input decoder module. Basically, mult your Y from a YPbPr source into Chromagnon’s rear sync input and then decode your YPbPr into RGB LZX 0-1V standard with a HD YPbPr input module that doesn’t exist yet. There are SD versions available like Syntonie’s VU003 for now.

Not sure on first question but second one, yes that’s the meaning of “Y/Gs”. It’s still going to go through a frame buffer though if you input RGsB into its front panel connectors. A separate RGsB input decoder module that doesn’t currently exist would let you bypass the TBC and plug directly into Chromagnon’s RGB LZX 0-1V standard connections, provided you had multed the Gs through to Chromagnon’s rear sync input.

Dunno but that might be useful! It would only allow for SD timings, presumably.

Thank you @rempesm –

I understand that the RCA input will always go through the TBC, delaying the source by one frame regardless of whether or not Chromagnon is genlocked to the source.

I do want to bypass the TBC so I am trying to figure out my options. Getting a lag-free RGBS signal out of a computer and into Chromagnon may be challenging. A YsUV to RGBS converter would do the trick, but they are probably unobtainium. Extron used to make one, back in 2009.

https://www.extron.com/product/cvc300

Maybe I can use an HDMI to DVI-D cable and this Extron converter?

https://www.extron.com/product/dvirgb200

BTW there are a couple of YUV → SCART converters available, but A) I think the voltages are not what Chromagnon expects, and B) I do not relish building a SCART breakout cable.

Just plan to use the YPbPr TBC inputs for your external video source – you’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, when there’s already a square hole!

I’m sorry, but getting a “lag free” signal out of a computer for quite literally anything for all intents and purposes is impossible by the sheer nature of how digital systems work. More importantly, it’s right in the territory of people sweating the purity of the copper in their audio interconnects. Not a single human on earth can hear the difference in copper purity, no matter what an audiophile magazine will tell you.
The true answer here is obvious. You’ll have to sign up for a computer to brain interface as soon as possible so you can negate the latency of your eyes processing the incoming photons

Lag matters if you’re syncing to sound or doing feedback, and comparing trying to iron out multiple frames worth of lag to copper purity purist audiophile madness makes little sense.

For those trying to sync up their patch to an audio source like a synth that uses pitch and gate CVs, one way to cut lag is to mult the pitch and gate CVs (filter cutoff CV very relevant too), and scale those voltages into whatever part of one’s patch that they care to modulate. This cuts out the “audio synth lag”, so that your video synth and audio synth are firing at the same time.

Btw, Really excited about the Chromagnon! I was looking at the front panel last night . What did I Preorder!?! Can’t wait to run some feedback through it!

Did this video drop? I’ve been off and on in terms of searching. My apologies if the answer is blatant, I’m late to the party…

The production schedule suggests “not yet”. Note that FKG3 was in there until very recently, but now its shipping. Also note the warning highlighted in yellow.

…thats a new “yellow”, I’m ready for it. Keep up the good work folks. The synergy isn’t just locally generated - we got you

I’ve been paying attention to LZX since the first generation, but I needed a size of 16: 9 instead of 4: 3 because the purpose is to capture it on Mac and make my music video.

So I gave up on it and 10 years have passed. And recently, I heard that LZX supports 1080p output, and I’m considering introducing Cromagnon.

Please let me ask some questions related to that.

These are very rudimentary contents, so these were likely answered in the forum already,But I couldn’t find it. I’m sorry if there are duplicates.

Q1:
Why does LZX not introduce modern resolutions such as 4K, 6K, 8k, but introduce legacy resolutions of 1080p?
Due to my lack of knowledge, I expected that Cromagnon would be equipped with an HDMI output port and could output resolutions up to 8K.
Is it a technical issue that LZX does not introduce today’s resolutions? Or is it a ideological issue?

Q2:
I was wondering if there are many 16: 9 size videos made by pre-HD system on LZX’s Youtube channel etc. Are those online videos capturing the 4:3 SD output from LZX on a computer etc. and then forcibly stretching it sideways?

Q3:
I’m interested in the Orion series, especially the fortress, in addition to Cromagnon, but will the Orion series continue to be produced in the future?
Also, I’ve seen vague information about whether the Orion series supports HD. Is it possible to input the video output from the Orion series to Cromagnon and then capture it on a Mac in HD?

Excuse me for the beginner’s question.

Aspect ratio is a feature of the display device. Once you get the video into a computer, you can use whatever aspect ratio you like.

Some video players, like VLC, will let you override the ratio set in the file. The default settings on all the “smart” TV sets I’ve seen seems to be to use 16:9 regardless of the broadcast ratio. However, it may be possible to change this in a menu option.

Many videos created using LZX modules that I’ve seen use 4:3, but some of us prefer 16:9. I also like upscaling to HD and applying other post-production transformations. For example, I like cropping the image to get cleaner edges, then adding horizontal and vertical mirroring. As the starting point is SD video, I actually downscale to get HD. If I did this starting with HD video, then I’d get 4K without any scaling. Adding another level of mirroring would give 8K. However, I don’t yet have a 4K monitor, so I don’t bother. HD is good enough for me.

Everyone has their own post-production style. That’s why so many of us use a video editor or something similar.

As for LZX hardware resolution, I think that may be a technology issue. Eurorack PSUs in the past struggled to provide enough power for SD modules, nevermind HD. Gen3 solves this by supporting 12V dc supplies.

However, I think HD is the maximal possible resolution. That’s a limitation of component video. To go higher, you need to go digital.

ffmpeg -i pc.mp4 -s 1440x1080 pcO.mp4

ffmpeg -i pcO.mp4 -vf "scale=-1:1080:flags=lanczos,setsar=1,pad=1920:1080:(ow-iw)/2:(oh-ih)/2" pcU.mp4

I use these two ffmpeg commands to go from 640x480 > 1440x1080 then pad to 1920x1080

If the source absolutely has to stay in 4:3 this is the easiest way for me currently

in my system I use an extron 300a to go from component output to HDMI and it also upscales however I want. The video is also going through a v440 before that so it can be upscaled most ways there too.

you can do it with hardware like mixers or upscalers in real time or you can do it via software in post production

there are no LZX modules with a HDMI output

the closest is the DVI out on the memory palace

as far as 4k etc that would be a post processing thing for sure with the current system
using something like topaz AI I would imagine

displaying live video content in 16:9 is totally doable and has been since before this new 1080 era! we are just going to have a lot more clarity at our disposal now if that is the artistic goal.

16:9 and 4:3 are just ratios and not resolutions. I almost exclusively feed my LZX system 16:9 footage, process it in 4:3, but recapture in 16:9. You can look at some samples of said process here: a_digital_index on Vimeo

Thank you for advice.

So that’s it. Since I usually make handwritten animations, I rarely changed the aspect ratio in post production.

For example, if I want to create a perfect circular image with LZX and finish it in a 4k digital movie without changing the aspect ratio, first divide the output of LZX into two and monitor one with a 16: 9 aspect ratio to create a perfect circle. And I just have to make it and capture the other one to Mac etc. via an HDMI converter with 4k upscale function, right?

Upscaling from SD or HD to 4k may not be particularly beneficial as it just makes the file heavier

Thank you for the useful information about electricity too. I didn’t know that the power consumption of a video synth is higher than that of audio

@wednesdayayay
Thank you. It’s so beautiful. I can’t believe it’s an SD signal

@a_digital_index
Thank you for showing me great job! Well, these works have 16:9 ratio, but the resolution is SD, isn’t it? Is the final codec h.264? And what is the frame rate?

The file will certainly be larger after upscaling, but that’s a feature of the final resolution rather than the scaling itself. Pixel format and frame rate will also be issues.

I can’t find the post but there was some discussion around HD in the LZX environment, which is primarily analogue don’t forget, it was mentioned that the bandwidth required to synthesise 4K would make for some obscenely expensive hardware…

I use an UDC to convert everything to 1080. That is what you saw. I’ve tried upscaling to 4K and it didn’t really result in a better image; just larger. To a certain degree, your image will only ever be as good as your lowest resolution in your signal flow and with Expedition series as sync that is going to be 480 (SD).

Most of these are captured in 29.97 and the codec is Pro Res which I then turn into .264 for web delivery.

Thank you again. It was very helpful.

Capturing with 29.97 ProRes and rendering with h.264 after post-production seems to me to be the best way for current webcasting.

And It’s very interesting to see what the image quality will look like when capturing LZX’s new HD video output.

I’ve never seen a 4k or 8k analogue signal. Outside of VGA, I’m not aware that there are any standard analogue signal resolutions that went much higher resolution than 1080. VGA could get to just over 2k.

A big strength of the LZX approach is that it is an analogue process, so when you patch things together, they pretty much happen instantly. Adding extra modules into the chain doesn’t add frames of latency (except for the Memory Palace but that’s kind of its job).

Digital video (HDMI etc) doesn’t transmit a constant stream of pixels in the way that analogue video does (okay, continuous voltage). It groups chunks of information and compresses it in places. This means that a digital modular system would have to wait until it has received a whole frame of information before processing it. This would add latency. Every module would need enough memory to store the full 8k frame. This would increase complexity and cost.

Computer software is most efficient for this type of workflow.

Thank you for the easy-to-understand advice even for me who has little knowledge of video. I don’t feel like making video with software for some reason. After all I want to use LZX. Because it looks very fun.

there are so many good software interfaces that are free

cables.gl
hydra
touchesigner
lumen

all are either free or have a useable “demo”

I get that you want to use hardware but being able to prototype in software is very helpful.

for instance my system is down entirely right now but I’m still keeping my patching practice up through touchdesigner. I just built a video synth idea that has been floating around in my head for ~3 years. The system it would take in order to build this patch would be giant and cost an insane amount of money.

getting to understand some of the core concepts of synthesis through hydra would be a great way to get your toes wet. Understanding more of the how’s and why’s of video synthesis is something a lot of people tend to step over because they get distracted by the shiny things. I know this because I was also one of those people.

I am by no means telling you to NOT buy hardware in fact I think working in TD is making my hardware choices harder. I have a much clearer idea of what I’m trying to achieve but also now I know how to achieve that look through practice. Before I’d just buy a module with the hope it would do what I wanted it to and that didn’t always work out.

I would also recommend a book that really goes in on the basics of digital compositing depending on your level of proficiency there as understanding some of those compositing concepts will also be hugely helpful in moving forward in video synthesis.

I 1000% agree with the book recommendation! Chapter 3 is probably the best manual for the Memory Palace that I have come across.

Thank you. Great information! I researched lumen before, but it didn’t look very interesting. I don’t really like to work with software even if in the field of audio, and I’m the type of person who enjoys working with hardware equipment, not to mention Eurorack.

However, I was interested in cables.gl and hydra. I don’t hate MAX that much and I’m interested in live coding. The touche signer looks like a mystery. It may be the type of software I have never seen before.

In any case, the cost issue is big. I think Cromagnon has unprecedented cost performance when introducing LZX, and HD support is really attractive, but even so, the total cost of shipping and tariffs is close to 1400 USD, which is a fairly high hurdle for me. Before that decision I will try cables.gl and hydra.

Does anyone know what Q3 means on the production schedule?

Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 11.13.322358×426 74.7 KB

3rd quarter - so somewhere around july/august/september best estimate at moment…

Q3 Calendar or Fiscal Year? They are different. Since FY22 Q3 is over that could mean FY23 Q3. As opposed to Calendar 2022 Q3.

It’s the calendar year. But it’s only the best guess at the moment. Impossible to know for sure with the supply chain disruptions.

So when this inevitably gets pushed back to 2023 will you then begin offering refunds?

Suggesting a delay to 2023 is being a bit presumptuous, but I understand why you would say that. The world has made small scale electronics manufacturing very difficult.

LZX does not offer refunds on pre-orders, but exchange credit is always available.

Why would I want exchange credit from a company I have lost trust in?

If you wanted currently available, in-stock modules over funding a preorder that’s been (and is still being) hit by pandemic manufacturing and component delays.

If you ordered from a third-party seller then it should be just as easy to cancel your order. But if you ordered Direct from LZX then not the same. Sometimes you have to choose risk/reward where to pre-order from i.e. “do I wait for a vendor to receive? what if they don’t get any stock?” or do I “secure my order directly with LZX and wait?”. I’ve done both. I feel Chromagnon is just around the corner!! Pre-ordered mine in January 2021 from a vendor. I really want TBC2 + Expander first though, pre-ordered them from LZX in August 2020!

Just got to hang on folks!! This should be the year LZX catches up!! In the mean time…more LZX Expedition black panels please

image1125×1440 439 KB

Sharing this just to paint a picture of the current shipping backlog.

In my workplace’s Global S&OP the Logistics team love sharing many slides worth of images like that - long term sourcing delays have been a hot topic for 6 months now

I’ve been seeing stories like this for over a year: Semiconductor firms: China lockdowns play havoc with supply and demand. The car industry was slow to restart last year because of similar issues. Here’s just one story: Volkswagen: Expect chip supply problems until 2024. One last story: Semiconductor sales forecast to hit $676b in 2022. Key quote: “With the current ongoing situation in Europe… it is difficult to predict how it [chip supply] will pan out; there are potential disruptions.”

Yeah, fabrication of components in industrial towns having been intermittently shutting down with outbreaks even still

When the first shutdowns occurred, everyone canceled their orders due to lack of demand, with basically only Apple still continuing to slurp down remaining stock, months to years of spotty availability and large vendors are Hamsterkaufing many years of future production to avoid any long future outages and screwing mid-tier producers and absolutely fucking small/boutique industry for basic chips and controllers, perhaps there’s some way for LZX to keep in better contact with updates (though the spreadsheet seems ok, if updated regularly) but at whatever Digikey/Mouser end there are either broad and inaccurate estimates or NO estimates for when many of these parts on order will come back in stock after all the largest manuf orders have been fulfilled.

Ok, back to synthesis concepts…

I’m curious how well the output of a NeonCaptain Radiator’s ILDA output would take to the Chromag’s ILDA input for additional processing, either back to ILDA out or as an input source for analog video modulation.

pretty sure there are likely folks out there wiling to buy out your pre-order if you ask - it’s happened plenty of times before in the Discord and possibly elsewhere on the forum here. if your pre-order was before the price increase i’d gladly buy it out for the price you paid

Does anyone know if Chromagnon started to ship to Canada yet?
Just curios if we all are still waiting or just me…

Hey @b4_H, there was some clear info in the latest newsletter and it includes a link to a excel sheet regarding production progress.

https://mailchi.mp/lzxindustries/lzx-end-of-year-update

The new journal section of the LZX site will feature regular posts about Chromagnon, including synthesis concepts. The inaugural post is a general update on the project, but features some cool simulations.

I enjoy this journal format.

Sucks that Chromagnon has probably become that giant millstone around all your necks. I couldn’t personally imagine the pressure.

Still cheering you on from the virtual sideline. When it comes out it will be the best of presents/parties.

In case you missed it…Chromagnon output videos!

Chromagnon manual controls in NTSC. There are a few visual artifacts and gain levels to resolve in the signal path (software related), but this is a decent first look at the range of the shape generation controls without any modulation (internal or external) applied. All the image generation here is the analog portion of the instrument (digital system is just generated ramps and managing the user interface.) Video footage is sped up 300%.
All attenuverters at null.
Modulation Vectors #1 thru #5: Disabled
Ramp Shapers: Off
Fold: Enabled
XY Mode: HV
Luma Mode: Key
Chroma Mode: XY
Compositor Mode: Additive (first part of video), Source In (last few seconds of video)
Controls adjusted: X, Y, Edge, Size, Skew, Curve

Using DWO3 oscillators and DSG3 shape generators as modulation and texture inputs to Chromagnon.

do you all have a laser to show any of the Chromagnon > laser functionality? or better yet radiator > Chromagnon > laser if that is how those items would most reasonably be set up.
I’m really thinking about picking up the radiator/laser combo.

Yes! There is a laser in the lab, and we look forward to beaming some demos when the time is right.

Does this mean we need to use a 75R terminator for the end of a sync chain?

Not quite, it just means every sync input is already terminated, and all sync outputs are buffered transmission lines. No 75R switches or loop thru option. This allows for a much more consistent expectation in terms of sync distribution and performance, and is most reflective of how modern broadcast gear works when dealing with sync references.

There is a 10ns propagation delay per buffer, so at worst, that means that if you have your TBC2 downstream from your ESG3 through a few buffers, you’ll have to adjust the pixel delay on TBC2 to get pixel-perfect alignment relative to output sync. So this is what I mean by “not a practical concern for most users.”

Ah, got it. Thanks. I figured I was misinterpreting it.

3A per 104HP? Wow, no wonder y’all moved to 12VDC and onboard power. That’s fully bonkers. The step up to HD bandwidth requires that much more overhead?

How does the onboard power compare to say a linear supply?

Here I was expecting to power my system over euro for ultra low noise but sounds like even a 25A supply might be getting close to the power budget

Looking at the total load, it’s not too far from our previous recommendation of 20mA per HP (10mA per HP on +12V and 10mA per HP on -12V.) It’s just all on one bulk rail. It sounds like a lot until you realize you can get 3Amps of 12VDC on a wall wart for much cheaper than any EuroRack options available. Just look for power supplies designed for CCTV equipment and LED lighting.

There’s also a lot more circuitry behind the panels of these new modules compared to anything we’ve done before. These are new, all-discrete circuit design topologies, which run a little bit hotter than some of the ASIC parts we’ve used in the past like LT1256.

None of this really relates to HD vs SD bandwidths specifically – it’s more about improving the performance of the environment all these signals live inside across the board.

How does the onboard power compare to say a linear supply?

Typical ripple in a linear supply is 3-4mV. Our power board’s noise floor is < 1 mV ripple. It’s analogue, so I’m sure there will always be some noise beyond that to contend with, especially if you’ve got lots of gain stages in your patch. But this is far and beyond cleaner than what we’ve done before.

Here I was expecting to power my system over euro for ultra low noise but sounds like even a 25A supply might be getting close to the power budget

Yeah no need for that – that’s part of the point – you don’t need to speed hundreds of bucks on low noise EuroRack power supplies or busboards – because on these modules you’ve already paid for that (they’re integrated into the power entry, and part of the module’s price tag.)

If you’ve got existing power solutions for your earlier modules that are working out great for ya then just stick to those! No need to change anything. You can squeeze a couple Gen3 modules in if you want. But if you’re planning a whole Gen3 row, just skip the Euro power supply and power it from the bulk DC12V instead.

By my rough calculations, that’s around 2A per 84hp row. A 12U rack cabinet gives me 4 rows, and require maybe 8A of power.

So my plan is to a pair of DC Distros to power a 12U cabinet for my Gen3 commands. Anything standalone, like Chromagnon, can sit outside the cab. I have an existing 12U cabinet using a pair of Malekko PSUs for older commands.

I love Gen3. It solves all the power issues that have been bugging me since 2015. Thanks!

Hadn’t considered that it’s all on the bulk rail - that’s more promising for a DIY clean power scheme - was thinking 3A± per 104.

I’m in the camp of having gone through the massive pain & expense of building/designing a clean power solution for my setup so was just trying to wrap my head around if/how that fits into Gen3 going forward.

Thats really impressive that they’re sub-1mv, brilliant move by you cats for building an onboard power solution - too long has power been the bane of video modular. Hell, eurorack in general, but video especially.

RE the dc distro
is the preferred use case that each output gets its own module or will it be ok to daisy chain multiple modules together?

iirc from the original spec for it, you should be able to daisy chain multiple modules together

hopefully this will also work with just putting a hole in the case and daisy chaining a 3A (or more) 12V power supply…

We won’t officially be supporting any daisy chain cables just because it’s a potential liability. You do not want to have loose/disconnected hanging DC barrels crammed behind the modules in your rack after installation – that could short against parts or connectors on the rear circuit boards and cause issues. So if you have unused connectors on your daisy chain cable, be sure you cap them with an insulated barrier or insulate them with electrical tape, etc before power up.

Also, with daisy chaining it would be possible to connect more modules than your power barrel/brick can support. So it puts you in the position of adding up your current ratings. On the LZX DC Distro the connector itself is rated for 5A maximum. So even if you had a 15A brick for example, you wouldn’t want to push 15A of current through the connector.

Also, if you are going to daisy chain you need to ensure you are using a wire gauge thick enough to carry the current. So you’d want to do it in segments, not in one long row. For example a 1 in, 5 out chain cable per row, with each cable going to a DC distro outlet, would be better than several daisy chain cables in series with each other.

TLDR; Daisy chain is okay, but you need to know what you’re doing. If you stick with DC distro or a limited scheme, you don’t have to think about it as much.

I prefer parallel distribution like DC Distro or these kind of supplies, where you have parallel output adapter from the power brick directly:

https://www.amazon.com/Fancy-Buying-100V-240V-Certified-Transformers-Fits/dp/B076HKCRNG/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2UHOUMFRU0SG0&keywords=dc+12v+cctv+power+supply&qid=1642358102&sprefix=dc+12v+cctv+power+supply%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-2

this looks to be the same thing but for uk!

Yes, you shouldn’t have trouble finding a wide variety of DC12V solutions! There are CCTV supplies designed to be used with pigtail leads as well, and rackmounted options. Also any generic 12V switcher closed frame supplies like from Meanwell, etc – or DIN rail mount bulk 12V supplies, are all options if you want a dedicated install without wall warts.

I’m sure some of these 12VDC parts are better than others (connector/cable quality, power output stability, expected lifetime of use, etc) but the great thing about any of them is that they are all easy to replace or maintain if something burns out – and most importantly, the Gen3 modules should perform consistently regardless.

Anything we stock at LZX will have to be marked up over what you’d get on the open market, but I view that more as the cost of a verifiable supply chain – if we’re offering something like DC Distro, DC jumpers, power bricks, etc it will be after we’ve put in the work to test them with the system and ensure that a user with no desire to learn the ins and outs of DIY power options can just plug it all in and it works.

For the DC Distro, that’s the “this will work, I don’t have to add anything up” approach. If you start daisy chaining, just make sure to add up all your module currents and make sure it does not exceed either 5A (the connector rating) or the DC brick rating. (And insulate any unused output connectors!)

There will be some revised DC distro options coming as well as barebones rack ear + rail kits. The current plan is to have those ready at the time DWO3 is put up for sale (the last of the 5 module basic modular set we’ve been working on.)

That’s why I plan to use a selection of 2-waym/3-way splitter cables with my DC Distro, with the splitters “upgrading” as I add more modules, up to a max of 14 modules on one brick (using up to four 3-way splitters and a single 2-way splitter).

That sounds like a good plan. Little velcro straps to keep things tidy as you go is probably a good investment. Due to the L shape of the gen3 modules, there’s a kind of cavity created just below the DC barrel connectors on the rear, the intention is that even if you have a shallow case, this pocket area is enough room to keep any rear cables neatly wrapped rather than potentially smashed against the back of the case.

If you are adapting an existing case and want a no-soldering easy install (and don’t want a DC power entry module up front) you could use a DC feed thru bulkhead, like this:

Well, I’m using 19" racks with an 8" depth. I think that should be deep enough for Gen3!

I like the cable-tie tip. I have some simple “wire” cable-ties that came with various cables, so I coudl make use of them in my Gen3 case. However, I shall now also consider using velcro. Thanks.

I’ve just got this one. The output jack from the PSU isn’t 2.1mm. The adapter has 2.1mm outputs but isn’t suitable for bulkhead mounting. Just something to keep an eye out for.

Edit: the other thing that I’m seeing is a lot of adapters with a 2.5mm internal that are being advertised as 2.1mm. They only show the dimensions on a small diagram and claim that they are compatible.

Thanks for this update. When reading the explanation of how things went with Chromagnon and TBC2 it definetely makes sense

And it’s good to know that my earlier investment in a huge power supply wasn’t for nothing…

Have to read this more later, but wanted to say I am super excited about 1080p, and 720p 60fps in particular. Progressive and High frame rates are gonna be awesome for sensory translator work.

Oh, yes. For me it would be 1080p and 50fps PAL. I have a lovely set of PAL CCTV cameras that I use for feedback. I also have some HD-SDI dome cameras. So I’m real interesting in how all these might work in a hybrid SD/HD feedback setup. I also have a pair of Sensory Translators begging to be used in this context. Nevermind processing HD video and stereo audio.

Ah man - I hate to be the one to bring it up - but the mention of TBC2 being interrelated/co-dependent on Chromagnon. Should we still expect to see TBC2 right after the rebuild is done on this first batch (I believe there was a post in December saying around something like around 2 months for rebuild?) - or is it going to continue to be held back as Chromagnon testing & finalization continues? Theres nothing I need more than to inject some external video into my system. I just ordered my third Composite to component converter for Visual Cortex - both had scaling options but nothing locked, gave me any image. Fingers crossed for #3 I guess, it was the expensive one

TBC2 rebuild is in progress. No setbacks from Gen3. The team continues to push hard to meet goals.

Hey, in case you haven’t come across this yet, the Ambrey composite to component converter is most people’s go-to for this as it definitely works with Visual Cortex. I know how maddening it is to try to solve this issue, so here’s a link:

Firmware is looking great on all of these projects, it’s the hardware being finalized that’s holding us back at the moment. We can’t release any firmware until the hardware is 100%, so that’s where we’re focused.

Remember that TBC2, Chromagnon, and anything with sync or ramps infrastructure in Gen3 (ESG3, DSG3, etc) all share a common codebase. It’s going to be to everyone’s advantage that we did it this way (it’s important that we are testing all of them together – TBC2/Chromagnon/ESG3/DSG3) before releasing any of them, but it’s been a long haul to say the least.

To put it another way – ESG3 or DSG3 being done also means a huge chunk of Chromagnon/TBC2 is done as well. Everything’s moving forward together. The modules have actually been helping immensely with finally conquering the big projects.

Ah man - I hate to be the one to bring it up - but the mention of TBC2 being interrelated/co-dependent on Chromagnon. Should we still expect to see TBC2 right after the rebuild is done on this first batch (I believe there was a post in December saying around something like around 2 months for rebuild?)

It’s a perfectly valid question. Yes, we will ship TBC2 as soon as the rebuild is done (meaning within 2-3 weeks of the last of the rebuilt units being completed and fully past testing). The rebuild takes priority over all the Gen3 modular projects. The past month we’ve been pushing through the modular projects hard so that we have some coasting momentum in order to power thru TBC2 fulfillment.

We’ve had some detours, as I’ve tried to explain – at the intent of every decision we’ve made has been “what gets TBC2 and Chromagnon done?” ahead of all else. Unfortunately that’s involved “we have to release these modules so the company doesn’t die” over the past several months. If the company dies, that just leaves me alone to try to fulfill on TBC2 and Chromagnon, possibly on top of a dayjob, and that is just not realistic. So it’s a 2 steps forward, 1 step back scenario.

Every day we get closer, and right now the team is optimistic and working at our best.

Here’s a shot of the whole family under test from last week.

image2048×1536 887 KB

Thanks - Good to know, that is the one I just ordered! Saved the best for last haha Unfortunately 3-4 weeks in between each order for international shipping to test so its been quite a long saga

Great, you’ll love it! That little Ambrey box is surprisingly valuable; for some reason VC won’t sync to my V40HD when fed component signal, but putting an Ambrey converter between the composite out and VC works like a charm, which has been necessary to get mixed HD video sources into my rack. Hopefully TBC2 will solve all this, but still the Ambrey box just works, and that’s what we all want

Thanks for sharing the link! I bought one for this price years ago when I first snatched up a VC, but I’ve noticed the price is a little high from the one guy I see selling it on eBay. Definitely worth it.

Hey Everyone!
Just curious if I missed a wave of shipments. I ordered a Chromagnon some time ago. Did I miss anything or are we all still waiting? I asking because my mailing address has changed three times over the years…

Thanks
Ofield

We’re all waiting, it has not shipped. Project timeline is on LZX’s website: https://lzxindustries.net/products/standalone_devices/chromagnon

You can email LZX to update your address.

Which other modules functionality overlaps with Chromagnon’s? Are there any modules that Chromagnon makes redundant entirely? I preordered a Chromagnon as my starter module, and am looking at modules to see what might go well with it.

Each additional module adds to the potential of additional complexity and control. I can’t really think of a module that would be redundant alongside Chromagnon. Maybe there are modules you wouldn’t find as useful, but that depends on what you are trying to achieve.
If you are interested in shape generation, then adding DWO3, DSG3, and modules to treat and combine their outputs would be best. From a pattern-making chain of modules you can then use Chromagnon to further complexify and animate the results for final output.
If you are interested in processing external video, you will want good modulation sources. DWO3 is also handy in this iteration, as well as Proc, SMX3, and modulators like LFOs and envelope followers.
Most LZX modules do double duty in external image and shape processing. There isn’t necessarily a wrong choice.

What about the video I/O modules TBC2 and ESG3?

TBC2 adds extra video inputs (plus other features) and ESG3 adds an output with brightness and contrast knobs (and invert/mute switches). Both would be useful expansions (or alternatives) to Chromagnon’s i/o. Not redundant, but it depends on your process and whether you need or could use expanded i/o.

Welcome to the forum @parallaxCloud
Basically Chromagnon replaces 5 (maybe even 6) Expedition modules, the range before Gen3. I’d say the list is: ShapeChanger, Navigator, Staircase, Mapper, Cyclops. (update: I forgot about Polar Fringe)

The only obvious one-to-one module in the Gen3 range to the list above is Stairs & Staircase but as @Z0NK0UT pointed out, there’s nothing wrong with duplicating some functions and Stairs/Staircase are really powerful, instant satisfaction commands.
Stairs doubles the number of outputs of Staircase, from 3 to 6, and triples it’s inputs although the 3 are summed and then processed together but hey, it’s a 3 input summing mixer thrown in which doesn’t only have to be for an RGB signal from a TBC for instance.
Someone fed back one of the outputs of Stairs back into one of it’s inputs and hey presto, Stairs owners suddenly had an instant snow-crash noise module in their racks

Although there’s currently 15 Gen3 modules currently available, many of those coming soon & next year will be function blocks of Chromagnon’s functions regarding movement/rotation, I’m sure many others won’t and yet all will be good additions to a Chromagnon centered system, imho.

Without knowing the signal routing in detail (ie, understanding if each section be patched individually) I wouldn’t so much say the Chromagnon “replaces” specific modules as much as “performs similar functionality”…

did youall do the knobacon thing yet? and if so do you have any video footage of the event we can watch.?

Knobcon Number Eleven, runs September 8-10, 2023

https://www.knobcon.com/

You’re right @Rik_bS but I was sure I basing what I wrote on something I read on here. I guess it’s an interpretation of this:

Discontinued:
Polar Fringe (replaced by Chromagnon)
Visual Cortex (replaced by Chromagnon, and other future Automata instruments)
Navigator (replaced by Chromagnon)
Shapechanger (replaced by Chromagnon, and other future Automata instruments)
Cyclops (replaced by Chromagnon)

It’s part of an older but important post. It’s towards the bottom, under “Discontinued”.
Here’s the link:

Any update on gen3 LFO & envelope follower modules? Pendulum I use all the time, been wondering what will replace it.

I suspect a new envelope follower is low on LZX’s list considering VH.S just dropped this bad boy: Aural Scan Video Synth — videoheadroom.systems

DWO3 is pretty impressive for LFO duties, so we have been leaning on that. And the Video Headroom Systems Baja feels indispensable. VH.S also has an envelope follower coming out, as @Vdot mentioned. There are LZX designs for these functions on deck, but we don’t have a timeline laid out.

DWO3 is a great LFO.

Syntonie Animate + Expander also looks amazeballs.

+1 on the Syntonie Animate & Expander combo although the Animate will go a long way too.
A Square output can be sent to a clockdivider to get fractions of the tempo/LFO speed too.

We have new voltage source modules in development. Lfo has been talked a lot. And gone through some very different at times panel concepts. Something more video rate will be happening first. Things that have been mentioned include easing curves. Phase relations. Timeline™️ vibes.

As far as lfo. Yea. It’s kinda like this.

Dwo. Benefits from static cv offset input for very slow stuff. Gives you all that video rate rizz. (Also hard to sacrifice a video rate to do lfo mode)

Syntonie. Gets you lfo only at price reduction from dwo. Ample waves and more with expander. Listed range is 100 seconds. Not sure if you can cv a higher voltage than 1v (normalled to cv input) for extra low low. 4 phases

Baja. Goes slowest with or without patching. Smallest footprint. Single waveform. 6 phases. Ribbon pwr only

I keep putting off Bajas because early simple translations to 5v weren’t instant success

Ease curves, phase, great things to consider. We do have good options in the audio realm, it’s just the voltage conversions that get in the way. Ornament and Crime Plus meets most of my needs, if I can just get the tuning right. If I can get a really precise 1-5V sawtooth into OCP > Hemispheres > VectorMorph, I can map that onto any function curve and phase. I imagine the newer, sexier versions of Disting would also go quite a ways down that path as well.

Anyway, it would be epic if some app-based digital CV magic made its way to the native LZX voltage standard. Custom function curves would effectively enable simple timeline operations, i.e. random access value mappings. (OCP Hemispheres does this) Add a CV digital delay line or two, and Bob’s your uncle. (Disting does this)

DWO is great, I don’t see it as sacrificing video rate to do LFO. I see it as a versatile option that saves rack space. Driving the FM input into negativland gives me all the slow LFO range I need.

any digital module with open source firmware - all mutable instrument except beads, and a lot of others, o&c - should be reasonably easy be update to use 0-1v instead of 5v…

mutable ones that I can think of that would be useful for video - ie mostly modulation would be tides (both versions), frames, peaks and stages

doesn’t really need huge amounts of coding skill either… just work out where the output values are being sent to the pins and adjust… and build and reflash… probably a bit hit and miss, at least to start with though…

… for someone with considerable relevant skill and experience

Changing the scale should be a trivial programming task. Greater changes have been made to the firmware for Mutable Instruments commands. As for updating, see the update instructions for the Parasites firmware.

However, I sold all my digital MI modules and I no longer have any space in the one cabinet in which I could cleanly power them.

I now use a pair of Sensory Translators as my “programmable” modulation sources. I feed them with sine waves with varying amplitudes, generated using CSound, tuned to the frequences of the Sensory Translator bands.

So much easier for me to program and update. I’m sure the technique could be adapted for Aural Scan and other sine wave sources.

indeed - the relevant skills: reading, maths, following instructions and a willingness to spend some time and effort…

no experience necessary…

it’s not like you need to become a fully fledged C++ programmer to do this… and once you’ve done one the others are more than likely exactly the same…

What’s the advantage of this vs. simply generating control voltages and outputting via a DC coupled audio interface?

I have no modules that can produce such complex signals. I usually want slowly flucturating CVs. While Marbles can generate 4 of them, it’s 18hp wide. That’s a lot of panel space for only 4 useful CVs! So I use a pair of Sensory Translators to get 10 fluctuating values. I can also generate any other complex signals, and they can change at any time. Even better, I can sync them with a video signal to get 3 video-rate CVs. I generate the video signals using FFmpeg, of course.

I’m now starting to experiment with more complex audio/visual generative techniques, This is done by writing code that generates filtergraph and/or command files (via the sendcmd filter) for FFmpeg, and score files for Csound. I’m also writing code to generatively edit the video in post-production. I may someday write more code to generate audio synched with the video.

Various examples of these techniques may be found via my Vimeo account.

I’m just saying, if you are good with Csound or whatever, something like Expert Sleepers ES-9 is a much more direct approach. Your use of fine-tuned sine waves through dual 5-band envelope followers is a clever approach. But you can easily just generate the control voltages directly. ES-9 is not cheap, and it “only” has eight outputs, but it is cheaper than 2x Sensory Translators, and I think it’s overall a better solution. I’m planning to go down that road eventually.

I have several problems with Expert Systems commands.

The first is that they’re not class-compliaqnt. Even using Windows 10, the driver didn’t work.

The second problem is that I don’t have space for a computer in or near my video rig. I might be able to set up a Rasperry Pi running Debian and Csound, but that would require a class-compliant soundcard.

So I use a pair of LZX modules instead. You can probably guess which video player I use to provide the audio and video.

Sorry this is drifting super far off topic. I’ve not had an issue with the driver for my ES-9 on Windows 10.

If you’re not using a computer, I don’t understand how you’re using Csound.

I use a computer running Ubuntu in another room. I use to create or prepare videos I can play into my video synth. The last time I used a computer and the synth in the same room was 2015.

You’re right, this is drifting off-topic. I was simply responding to Agawell’s post about custom MI firmware by describing how I avoided that. I’ve done that and said more than enough now.

#O&C
Ornnament & Crime at 1V

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Your settings may vary.
It depends a bit on each unit and their calibration.
That said, setting o&c to 1v is fantastic, I used it a lot before having the syntonie lfos.
Having weird waveforms in audio range oscillators and feeding them to diver is a simple and nice patch.

Interesting to read about Ornament and Crime’s 1v capabilities. I’ve got Zadar, and while it has some wild waveforms which can be skewed in interesting ways, it doesn’t sync to video rates from what I’ve tried so far.

What can take sync (my system is Visual Cortex-based) is Vermona’s uniCYCLE, and it’s already a lower peak-to-peak waveform at 5v instead of 10v like most audio euro oscillators. I can get it to do multiple horizontal lines, but only one vertical line will sync, effectively becoming a ramp. Fun to modulate its even waveform’s pulse width when it’s moonlighting as a horizontal ramp! (I asked and Vermona did not intend them for video use, thus hasn’t mentioned it in their materials, but they’re more versatile in practice if you’ve got an interest in both A & V.

Regardless, it’ll be some time before I’ve caught up with the Gen3 commands. I’m excited to see what will come next, and hope to see more “3 Patches” videos if they’re still making them.

I am curious to know what the downresing/upresing experience is with Chromagnon. Synthonie video delay/enhancer modules have caught my eye. Can Chromagnon output to these modules via composite video, then upres the resulting composite video back to 1080 60?

Seems like I would need another output module to export to the synthonie modules, then pass the result to Chromagnon for upresing.

I use the Hemispheres firmware for O&C, it’s like having two complete modules in one. And the Plum Audio version, O&C Plus, adds some indispensible options such as attenuverters, and the all-important +/-5V global switch.

I’ve done the 0-1V dance with OCP plenty of times; one of the apps is Attenuate / Offset. But that uses up one of the hemispheres. I’d rather use both Hemispheres for creative apps. Best to send the 0-5V outputs through a Cadet V scaler or a BSO 5:1… except, as I have lamented many times, the former requires DIY abilities and free time, and the latter is no longer in production.

Chromagnon can upscale or downscale, but only exactly once. It’s a single channel device. You can’t send CVBS out of Chromagnon, through some other boxes, back to Chromagnon, upscale, and output again.

So you probably need a TBC2 if you want to integrate those Syntonie glitch modules in an HD workflow. Or you could do everything in SD and upscale at the end of the chain, either with an HD upscaling device or in software.

Scopic Modular has a 2hp down-scaler available as well

Very cool. Any recommendations for lightweight upresing? Are there light weight modules for going to/from CompositeVideo and Component Video?

Oh yeah! I forgot about that. Thanks! A five to one voltage converter that’s actually in production! And only 2HP.

Not that I know of… it’s pretty involved from a technical standpoint. Either a full digital frame store, or an intricate analog scan conversion. Many HD mixers will automatically upscale to their chosen output format. There are also numerous legacy standalone scaler boxes from Extron and other manufacturers. And if you’re just recording, not doing live performance, you can always upscale in post using Premiere or whatever.

Hi! I have a vessel case with 2x capsule power. If I want to put some gen3 modules in this case can I power them via a daisy chain from the dc socket on the back of capsule power module(s).

I powered the system on and plugged a dc power cable into the capsule on the right side of the case and measured 11.95V on that connector with a multimeter so it seems good to go. I am using the 8.34A supply that came with the case.

If I put about 10 x gen3 modules in 2 chains of 5x modules daisy chained from each capsule on 1-5 fx pedal daisy chains, the load would be about 1A +12V on each chain . and for the remaining modules load will be approx. 575 mA +12V | 340 mA -12V on each capsule . thanks!

The combination of Capsule and barrel power in that case will make it very flexible for building a system. You can definitely plug a splitter into the DC outlet inside the case and power some Gen3 commands.

oh great, thanks chad !

Hello friends,
Have I missed any important updates in terms of Chromagnon shipments?

Thanks in advance. I suppose I can hunt down the most current schedule.
b4_H

We have been preparing an update, but have not yet sent out the newsletter. Soon!

Is there a list somewhere of the expedition modules with sync connections that will work at HD rate?

See also:

I have a question about the distant future, long after the Chromagnon saga.

I vaguely remember something about Automata instruments, specifically a texture voice. That and a line of new DIY commands. Are there any vague plans in those areas still?

I don’t know about Automata instruments for future release, but I recall that being talked about in the past too.

As for DIY, this module is currently available in built and kit form and seems to be a solid step into the future of DIY modules:

Oops, I hadn’t read the latest blog post. So the P Series [like the PGO] is the foretold DIY successor to the Cadet series. That’s awesome news!

Good Day,

For the record- Chromagnon has NOT shipped right? I’ve moved twice since I Bought it however many years now. 4-5 I take it. It’s hard to keep up. Thanks

hell yea. are there going to be any demo videos of the upcoming smaller modules?

We’ll be sending those along with ESG3, DSG3, TBC2 to Johnny Woods very soon, to do more 3 patches videos. It’s going to be hard to allocate a lot of time for demo production in house until the Chromagnon release, but we could do some live Q&A/patch streams that get archived. I will try to at least post some patch diagrams.

This is such great news @creatorlars, thanks for posting it
& someone’s already posted it to Discord where its creating an active conversation too.
Nick’s stream today was great yet I only caught the last 75 minutes or so. He did a quick Stairs & Staircase A/B (upon request which was damn nice of him considering he’d probably already done it earlier in the stream) & jez, what a difference! Gen3 is the bomb!!! Congrats

Thanks for the update! I’m happy to see you all completing your multi-year vision and am looking forward to… well, all of this!

Where does the big firmware update (Mem Palace, Diver, etc.) lie on the timeline?

I’m so interested in purchasing these first 3 commands. However, I have not done any pre order yet. So does that I’m out of luck on preorders being all filled and essentially I cannot order any units till q4? Or is the July run of shipments going to have a reserve of units that can still be purchased today???

Thanks so much!
-d

It might be worthwhile finding an LZX dealer near you, and enquiring if they have anything on pre-order that you could purchase.
Or maybe just wait until product is made and distributed then hunt down what is available in the market… less ambiguity with that approach.

TBC2 might not reach ready-to-ship inventory until Q4, but ESG3 and DSG3 should be in stock sometime this summer. I fully expect all three modules to be available somewhere online shortly after they begin shipping–either from private parties or dealers.

Definitely excited about a Staicase type module in Gen 3

Out of curiosity what is the price point going to be for these 5 new utility modules that you’re hoping to put up for sale this week?

Prices will be announced when the modules go up for sale this week.

What is the Keychain module?

KeyChain is 3 hard Keyers. Nick gave a cool demo of its style of output on the LZX Twitch account about a month ago but its not up there anymore. He used the Visionary TFKG module on a camera feed & it looked great!

Hey Pascal @meudiademorte, was it you who posted a link in the Discord recently to a Google Drive backup of some or all of the previous Twitch streams that Nick has done?

Here’s the said link:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16qsDG_v0OFGjhVoBNDxUiAmLb_q20qhf

Yws, i did a back up. Have to upload the last 2.

Thank you for this. I missed several due to a fluctuating work schedule and was bummed to think they were gone forever!

Happy to say that I’ve released a production version of the ESG3 firmware today, after spending the past week tuning the genlock input timings.

I should be able to say the same on DSG3 within the next few days.

I gave a video synth workshop here in Berlin this evening, Sunday 10th July, & it was nice to tell a couple of the participants, who pointed out that the Visual Cortex isn’t even on the Schneidersladen page anymore, with full confidence that ESG3 is imminent and the wait for an encoder is soon over.

It’s been a bit of a long week for us here – initial batch testing of 9 units of ESG3 on Monday uncovered a new clock crystal tolerance related issue. A couple units were outside the other unit’s lock ranges at their resting frequencies. We’ve got this resolved now it appears – but we are going to be testing for another day or two to be sure, before we can say we are done. Some of us are also out of office or sick right now, so I don’t think there will be any ESG3 going out this or next week.

Right now, it’s still looking likely we’ll be at a spot where we can start shipping them before the end of the month.

This week, we also added a test pattern generator mode to TBC2, so that we can have a native reference for 1V color bars. This is making the RGB calibration on ESG3 units very pleasant, as you can see from the below photo. We pulled out a Tek WFM90 vectorscope we’ve had lying around for ages, and are putting it to work.

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TBC2 firmware has been performing great, but I’m trying to get ESG3 out the door first (so that I have an output to evaluate TBC2 with other than Visual Cortex.) It was nice to see how quickly I could add the extra generator mode to the software engine, which bodes well for the speed at which we’ll be able to release new firmware extensions post-release.

dang, never seen a portable vectorscope like that before. cool stuff!

color bars end up being such a fun input to the video synth
glad to see it built in! otherwise it would have just ended up a still on our TBC2
hopefully some more people will take the time to really get to know chroma key on the memory palace with these bars

Yes, test patterns are great. I have a Kramer VGA downscaler that generates a test pattern when there’s no VGA input. As I usually have no VGA sources, I use it mainly as a pattern generator. It’s great when I need a complex pattern and I’ve run out of modules to patch something up - or I’m just feeling lazy.

Yes, especially if we are just rendering a still frame, it’s easy to have all kinds of software generators in TBC2. Here is the basic RGB ramps generator. All of this will get ported back to Memory Palace at some point.

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I think a development diary approach tends to work well for that! So I am going to try to keep this thread updated weekly and at any eventful milestones.

Forget if this has been shared before, but if anyone needs some down-and-dirty color bars (for fun stuff), a ramp + Castle ADC works great.

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Output:

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Just a technical note: That technique works well for 100% color bars, but most vector scopes will expect 75% levels (0.75V) for their calibration squares. In this case, since it’s TBC2’s DAC generating the RGB source, we can set a very specific RGB value for each bar – this helps in the calibration use case. Either method works, for a creative use case of course!!

(Is this funny? it seemed funny when I thought of it but by the time I completed it, it seems kinda dumb. I was originally thinking of Billy Idol but this had the text on it)

You’re not alone. I too have heard Sting singing “I want my TBCeee!” for quite some time.

Ha ha, I played live visuals at a gig last week & an older gentleman walked in during the soundcheck. When he saw my visuals, for some reason he mentioned this exact song
But it took us a while to think of the band name, funnily enough the album title came quickly to mind. I absolutely loved this song & video as a kid, as well as their other hit with some wacky video editing, “Walk of Life”

We had a quiet week this week, with steady ESG3 progress. Jonah tackled some pre-flight QA checks on the first batches of hardware modules while I iterated through firmware builds with lots of small tweaks – mostly related to the composite output’s subcarrier, and improving horizontal phase lock under all cases. That’s all looking great and it looks like we’ll be shipping some units soon.

This is a first time for us, doing a CVBS output with a locked subcarrier (previous encoder designs have used a free running crystal.) We’re using some of the PLL and DSP blocks in the Lattice iCE40LP5 FPGA to generate subcarrier clocks for NTSC and PAL. Since the PLL is based on the same 27MHz pixel clock used to generate the other sync signals: hsync, vsync, avid, etc, we can conform to broadcast standards for a locked synchronous subcarrier.

So in addition to the new HD modes, there is a substantial quality upgrade to this encoder in respect to the CVBS output, too!

When working on the VHDL code that compiles into the FPGA’s firmware, it can be a bit of a head shift compared to the C++ application code I’ve been writing for TBC2. It all gets compiled into real time logic, instead of processor instructions! I like VHDL a lot because you are describing a circuit, and so it feels natural to me. Here’s a process block that detects whether or not a sync signal is connected into the sync input jack, and also determines if the video source is interlaced:

process(i_clk)
  begin
    if rising_edge(i_clk) then
      s_clk_cnt <= s_clk_cnt + 1;
      s_csync_ff <= i_csync;
      s_csync_ff2 <= s_csync_ff;
      s_interlaced <= s_interlaced or not i_oddeven;
      if (s_csync_ff = '0' and s_csync_ff2 = '1') or (s_csync_ff = '1' and s_csync_ff2 = '0') then
        s_csync_cnt <= s_csync_cnt + 1;
      end if;
      if s_clk_cnt = 0 then
        s_o_interlaced <= s_interlaced;
        if s_csync_cnt > 0 then
          s_o_detected <= '1';
          s_csync_cnt <= 0;
        else
          s_o_detected <= '0';
        end if;
      end if;
    end if;
  end process;

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jesus, that scope shot is perfect

I had some phase and DAC scale corrections to make to DSG3 this morning, and our 10-bit ramp generators are now looking great.

Here you can see some timing discontinuities I needed to fix – vertical reset line is in the wrong spot, and the vramp resets at the wrong phase:

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Waveforms on the scope:

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Enjoying a DSG3+ESG3 mini synth/pattern generator!

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A couple quick shots in 1080p30 (excuse the moire):

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We’re now at a point where I’m personally satisfied with where we are on both of these modules, and would be happy if firmware shipped in this state – but I need to meet with the team on Monday to assess where we are before I start promising shipment dates. This is a very big milestone though, as it puts both projects back into the workshop/production team’s priority queue.

great to see such progress Lars - keep up the good work!

I took a break from ESG3/DSG3 testing to play with a couple new prototypes today (Keychain, triple hard key generator and Contour, triple differentiator). Here’s DSG3 → Keychain → Contour → ESG3 in 1080p30.

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thank you for all the recent communications! I’m super interested in seeing the panel layout for contour.

how has that seetec monitor been working out?

It is really nice to see this kind of progress happening

@creatorlars , thank you for sharing your progress.
I’m looking forward to using ESG3!
And I’m curious about the Expedition modules that works in HD workflow…
Can you tell us about the Expedition module(s) that obviously doesn’t work in HD workflow at this time?

In Expedition series only, I would be very surprised if you get these specific three modules to work outside of NTSC/PAL timings:

• Liquid TV

• Visual Cortex

• Navigator (X/Y positioning is likely fine but operating rotation without matched sync probably will give you at least a glitched line)

Everything else in Expedition that requires RCA sync should be able to sync to HD timings without a problem. If it doesn’t require sync, it just works in any of the timing formats.

LMH198x is what drives the Gen3 multi-format sync extraction but LM1881 sync extraction used throughout Expedition is surprisingly robust with HD timings. Different story for Visionary, Orion and Cadet commands.

Thank you for information.
I was also worried that the Expedition modules would be damaged by the HD workflow.
But the components and the circuits of the Expedition module seems to be strong.

Yes, this raises questions. So I’m also curious.

I love the Seetec monitor! It has CVBS & YPbPr inputs with loopthru (very handy if going to a recording/capture device afterwards) and supports all 15 of the Gen3 timing modes natively. There are a few versions, this is the rack mount one.

Contour is another 8HP utility module, following the same triple function layout as Keychain & Proc. The VC differentiator is the same architecture as Curtain’s, but uses only the high frequency range. Perfect for pulling edge gradients out of Keychain’s flat outputs. Or reversing that relationship, Contour into Keychain becomes an outline extractor with adjustable stroke width.

Keychain uses the very fast AD8564 quad comparator and looks very sharp in the HD modes.

We’ll be doing a multimode/2D VCF based on the DWO3 architecture and some sort of edge proc/luma enhancer later on. Contour and Keychain are meant to up the system’s ratio of base key/filter functions at a very high function-to-HP ratio (1 Filter/Key Gen per 2.67HP).

Oh, yes! I love all these filters and keyers. Thanks for the info.

Love to hear about some texture and filtering Gen3 options. I’m sort of curious if there is any preference for a Gen3 noise source being single dual or triple?

For a typical analog noise source, I think that one is probably enough. The idea of a noise source is to provide randomness across all frequencies at once – so you typically use filters to further shape the noise’s tone. So, I guess that’s my opinion: noise with different filtered outputs or noise with extra mult outs is probably more useful than a triple noise generator.

That’s kind of what I pictured for a noise source. the only reason to want more noise sources would be for chromatic noise, though you’d still want filtering for each channel.

Keychain is now available on the LZX site!
https://community.lzxindustries.net/t/all-about-keychain/4021

It was a busy week – the workshop built batches of the Keychain and Stairs modules as Jonah and I tackled a few ESG3/DSG3 issues that popped up with the progressive formats, and then focused on ESG3 QA/calibration. Today ended with around 40x ESG3 units calibrated and ready to go, and some of those are already in the mail.

I did manage to squeeze an easter egg mode into ESG3, because we had one position left on the 4-bit format select switch, it is 240p60 (262 lines/field NTSC progressive) – it should be a fun one to play with on some older CRTs. Currently my display will recognize it as NTSC on composite, but not on it’s YPbPr inputs.

Next week, we’ll get to review the latest DWO3 prototype, which was finished yesterday, and see if that module is ready for production as well. And I’ll be getting back to TBC2, which we’re hoping to get out the door shortly as well.

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Super stoked for my esg3

Yes, DSG3 and ESG3 firmwares were released earlier in this month, and both modules are in the shipping state.

Ed and I are in the middle of the TBC2 release sprint at the moment (this means the final list of tasks / bugfixes that need to be resolved before releasing version 1.) Compared to where we started 3 weeks ago, we’re over halfway through the list. I do not think it will take another 3 weeks to finish, though. DSG3/ESG3 QA & fulfillment tasks have been dominating my schedule, and this is the first week since my last update that I have been able to contribute most of my time to TBC2. I expect a couple more days of code, a couple more days of QA/testing, and then we’ll start sending them out.

So next week, I’ll check in again – I’ll either let you know that we are shipping, or that QA/testing is dragging out, and what’s up with that.

Having fun with some live upscaling of NTSC camera to 1080p30 in a feedback loop.

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this looks super fun! what kind of camera are you using here?
I’m so excited to see TBC2s coming our way!

Thanks to the LZX team for their hard work making this possible.

Thanks for the update!

Just checking in before I transition over to focusing on the holiday weekend (Happy Labor Day!)

I plugged the USB JTAG debugger tool I use for TBC2 development in backwards this Monday, and fried it. So I was without my debugger until Friday (when replacements arrived from Digilent.) So I wasn’t able to race to the launch day like I wanted – but I used the time to implement some more thorough input detection functionality for sync and video inputs.

Now TBC2 will auto detect the presence of the sync input and locks onto the detected format – additionally the inputs will auto detect the connector in use, so it’s no longer necessary to define any of that in the menu.

Additionally, I moved media loading to a coroutine that allows better monitoring of the loading state, and allows the video outputs to remain running while media loading is in progress.

Now that I have my debugger back in place, I can get back to wrapping up the project.

A shame you fried the JTAG tool but it’s great to read these upgrades you’ve been able to implement into TBC2, especially the sync detect & taking out that selection process from the menu
Having the same “no freeze when loading a new folder” coroutine on Memory Palace would be awesome. Surely this hasn’t been included on the recent 2.0.2 (perhaps mislabeled) upgrade, right?

Correct. The most recent Memory Palace firmware update took place at the end of 2021.

This is probably the 3rd or 4th time I’ve done it in the past few years! I usually have a backup. Not this time. I can develop without the debugger tool, but it involves building the firmware binary, transferring it over on SD card, and booting from SD every time I want to test a build. So it’s harder to do the more tedious bits that involve small tweaks you want to verify rapidly.

The current development path for Memory Palace is to develop the Mk2 firmware with a build that is cross-compatible with the Mk1 hardware (but SD modes only.) So I’m sure we will add this feature to Memory Palace Mk1, but that will come in parallel with Mk2’s development.

What camera is this, Lars? I’ve seen them around but never known what they are

Does this mean the eventual mk2 memory palace will do the HD timings?

That’s Nick’s camera. They’re called “Lipstick Cameras.”

Does this mean the eventual mk2 memory palace will do the HD timings?

Yes, part of the whole hassle of this generational upgrade going on is that all future development will support all 15 analog SD/HD timing formats. This is our “forever list” of video formats to support. So Mempal Mk2 will support all the same timings.

ffs… this means I’m going to end up having separate SD and HD racks. While MP’s functions are only accessible in SD, I’m happy to stay in SD. I won’t be able to resist an HD Mempal, but I’m too much of a horder to let go of the SD Mempal.

I’ve got a Vessel in the back of a wardrobe. A MP2 might finally push me to transfer all my SD syncing units into the Vessel, find a Vesa arm for it and mount it somewhere alongside a HD + everything else version of my existing set up. The quest for a good load-bearing and easily adjustable Vesa arm commences…

So whats up with the chromagnon? Whats the actual Status and are there any news?

After the TBC2 firmware is released, I’ll be able to resume work on Chromagnon. We are a very small team, and have to serialize our efforts. The reason we’re releasing new modules right now is so that we can survive as a business to finish the Chromagnon project, which has suffered long delays for more than a few reasons! We discontinued most of our product line when Chromagnon was announced, so it left us without a product catalog to survive on when the delays hit us. I’m looking forward to celebrating the TBC2 launch and being back on the Chromagnon track.

I got this to work on a Tektronix 650HR-C in RGB mode! My rescan setup won’t do it justice it at the moment but the scanlines look great in shape synthesis.

Can the manual be amended to show this timing is possible?

It’s 1111xxx1 for 240p60 in RGB colorspace.

EDIT: Here’s a halfway decent rescan and a rougher closeup so you can see both the aperture grill and blanked scanlines more or less more clearly. Those edges, though.

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Reminds me of when Apple killed FCP 7… glad we have modules available again now and LZX is still here.

This might have been asked already…but with TBC2, VC, Memory Palace, etc. is there a preferred Sync Master? I typically use the VC as master. Just wondering if TBC2 should be master in a setup with those modules or doesn’t matter keeping VC as master and TBC2 slaved too.

Not sure but one thing to bear in mind is that the component in on VC is not a TBC/FS so if bringing in multiple external sources is part of your workflow not having VC as LZX house Sync (master/parent) might make using that input more challenging.

All the Gen3 modules (including TBC2, Chromagnon, ESG3) with sync generator functions are crystal clocked sync generators with external sync capability. (So technically they are all time base correctors, but not all frame synchronizers!)

So there’s no advantage or disadvantage to which one you use as sync master. It’s just whichever module doesn’t have anything patched to the sync input jack.

There’s also no problems with continuing to use Visual Cortex as your sync generator either – it’s a very stable sync gen, with a similar architecture as Gen3 (a dedicated FPGA/CPLD generator running off a base 27MHz VCXO).

I would avoid using Memory Palace as sync generator – the earlier units had some issues, that were then corrected. But it doesn’t have as ideal of a sync transmission line as the Gen3 modules do.

Oh, you tease!

Nice, is my unit due for a tune up yet? I keep reminding you all, but keep getting ghosted by your work timelines. lol

+1 for a compatibility chart! I think it should be kind of like an emulator compatibility chart… not just “works/doesn’t-work”, but something like “perfect/good/poor/doesn’t-work”, with notes for any status other than “perfect” if necessary. Although I guess it gets a little complicated since there’s so many modes in the gen3 gear, maybe? I guess the notes part might need to be dropped.

@creatorlars Is this a good thread for people to comment about their experiences? Or do you want to keep this thread to a Q&A kind of vibe?

Discussion is great! The purpose of this post: make it easy for other community members to gain access to community knowledge on this subject.

Regarding data structure for a compatibility matrix, it is kind of tricky. Given the number of formats you could test in, and the number of modules, and the obvious benefit of logging notes from multiple user reports in any of these cases, the data is like a cube – and that’s not easy to represent in a single table. Maybe there’s a better way.

We could use the forum’s tagging system, and then perhaps provide an index and “ratings chart” in this thread or one like it. For example, all posts tagged “Navigator” and “Gen3” is a good indication of user reports on Navigator’s compatibility with Gen3’s HD modes. This makes the forum’s search functions more powerful.

Although this is a topic about formats, I think power would be a useful dimension especially for the system building topic.

When building a 2x84HP or bigger system, with mostly but not exclusively Gen3, it seems difficult to get around having 2 types of power supplies (a bus board and a DC distro or cheaper alternative). In that case the potential of Gen3 offering a more affordable power solution seems lost. Especially if we don’t want to introduce any noise form cheap power supplies meant to power only a couple of non-Gen3 (/non-LZX) powered commands.

Curious what you recommend or how others are planning to do this.

I’ve just added a DC Distro to the PSU2/PSU3 cases that I’ve been using. I’m committed to a mixed case for a while because I love the vibrance of the DIY scene and the legacy modules are all fairly distinct from their Gen3 replacements.

I would either have 2 separate cases (one DC Distro, one EuroRack), or a rack case with multiple rows (some rows EuroRack, some rows DC Distro), or if a single combined case was a must, I’d install a EuroRack power supply/busboard with enough 12V DC current to supply both EuroRack and Gen3 commands. It’s also a question of proportions. If you’re just putting a couple of Gen3 modules in your existing case, powering them from the EuroRack shouldn’t be a problem in most cases.

Cheaper input power supplies is only one reason for the Gen3 power distribution scheme, that’s only part of the puzzle. Some of the modules are massive analogue circuits, and just require more power in general. Making them possible as low HP modules is quite a task, and so I don’t think there are any off the shelf EuroRack supplies that could handle an all Gen3 system.

will the LZX euro power supply be coming back at any point?

I’ve got one of the LZX power supplies a 5a dc distro for the big modules and a 3a dc distro for a row of regular gen 3 plus a 4ms black row power that I’ve used for a long time but is kind of noisy. So I think I should be set for the moment to get things rolling again.

the skirting and stairs on our new house should be finished by tomorrow so we should be moving in in the next couple weeks! Then once things are moved in I can start setting the dedicated space up again. I’m so pumped to start streaming with a system again. I should be getting a package from LZX today with a bunch of good stuff.

We could do a combined EuroRack and DC distribution busboard at some point, likely when we offer a new version of Vessel or a new case. But it would be a higher priced variant than the base option, which would be DC distribution only. It would be very good to hear everyone’s thoughts, complaints, desires, etc for all of these solutions as you confront integrated setups. What percentage of a system is going to be Gen3 vs earlier generations of modules, for example? If it’s 90% Gen3, a couple old modules, that could be annoying. If it’s 90% old modules, a couple Gen3 modules, then most Euro supplies should be fine. If a new busboard design (Euro + DC) is something that solves a lot of folks issues in the short term, we could prioritize that.

We’ve tried to engineer a low impact solution that solves basic Euro power vs Video modules issues that have been around ever since the introduction of non linear power supplies and shallow skiff cases into the EuroRack landscape (something that happened in early 2010s, between Visionary and Expedition series.) Even with linear supplies, distributed +/-12V always proved a big problem for us, since any modern (past few decades!) video parts run off of +/-5V.

So high power, ultra low noise, miniature-scale form factor – it’s a tall order! There are of course going to be some integration road bumps – our hope is that our solution is a balanced one, that allows the growth of the format and systems, while still allowing integrated systems rather than ditching EuroRack power entirely.

changing from PAL to 1080i60.

esg as master sync to cortex.

That all looks as expected. Visual Cortex does not support 1080i60 modes (it runs in NTSC or PAL only).

More on this point. I don’t think you’ll suffer a decrease to any existing EuroRack power supply performance when using distributed DC 12V in the same case as EuroRack commands. The DC 12V entry never touches the analog signal path – that’s all being powered from the rear power entry board on the LZX commands. On that board is a big EMI filter right at the input, and a power supply topology that produces very low noise +/-5V rails (and those are what power the IO and the rest of the signal path.)

If you are seeing some kind of noise like that with DC distribution, make sure you are using shielded jumper cables and that all modules are secured to the case with mounting screws. If you’re still seeing some kind of noise, give us all the details on your setup so we can try to recreate the issue in the lab.

What I mean is, if next to a couple of Gen3 + DC Distro (or other supply) modules, you also have a non-Gen3 module that is powered by a different very noisy power supply. Maybe I’m misunderstanding but if that noise has entered the patch via one dirty power supply, it will not be filtered by the Gen3 modules anymore, right? Or do all signals you patch go through those EMI filters?

Ah okay, I get you now. And yes, that’s correct. You can’t expect the Gen3 modules to remove any noise from other commands. So it’s best that you always use a lower noise EuroRack power supply, same as it’s always been, to get the best performance out of EuroRack powered commands.

Has anyone used Castle modules in HD workflows? I’m curious how those do.

Used caste adc and dac. They work as expected with some rough edges

susynct - thank you for a needed boost of confidence in the upcoming merger

There’s no inherent reason the Castle modules, apart from Castle Clock VCO, won’t function correctly in HD timings.

Castle Clock VCO expects H/V sync on the CV/Gate power connector which is a deprecated standard in Gen3.

To get H/V sync into the Clock VCO, simply take a H or V ramp from DSG’s SUM output (use a dummy cable to disable the other ramp), sum it with an adjustable bias (Passage, Proc, Fox Access, etc.) and plug it into the front panel’s Sync input. Same principle applies for syncing any oscillator that doesn’t have an RCA connector. Cadet IX may be modified for a front panel sync input.

You can use the same H/V ramp + offset approach for any of the other Castle modules with Clock or Reset inputs that can benefit from being locked to H/V pulses.

https://community.lzxindustries.net/t/tbc2-aka-bell-tower/319/67

I am hoping this is still the case, however.

Yes, HV sync outs are available on TBC2, same as Cortex. (The 2-position DIP switch enables HV sync to the CV/Gate bus on the EuroRack power header.)

Very good. That solves a sync problem that’s been bugging me. Thanks.

By this I guess you mean composite sync is available on the power bus, for compatibility with legacy video commands. TBC2 does not currently provide separate H or V sync outputs either at the front or rear panel, right?

As I mentioned previously, it would be super sweet to have vertical sync available as a patchable signal, for purposes of vertical interval switching, oscillator and envelope triggering, and full frame/field sample and hold. I’ve made this work with Syntonie video sync’d oscillators, and it’s awesome. But it would be even better if I didn’t have to tie up an entire oscillator and comparator just to provide vertical sync to a sample/hold trigger input.

Which also brings up the question, what is the square wave input on the front of TBC2?

Thanks!

“HV sync over power bus” refers to the older sync system used for the Gen1 oscillators and early Prismatic Rays.

Assignable trigger function input, like Memory Palace.

By this I guess you mean composite sync is available on the power bus, for compatibility with legacy video commands. TBC2 does not currently provide separate H or V sync outputs either at the front or rear panel, right?

Correct. There are no 3.5mm patchable syncs on the front or rear of TBC2.

There’s an HV ref / sync generator module coming, which will have discrete sync outputs and HV reference ramps. Unlike previous generations, a module like this isn’t required for every system, since modules like ESG3 can also function as a standalone sync generator.

That’s awesome… but I’m out of rack space.

Any chance you’d be willing to make Vsync available from TBC2 Y output via a firmware update?

Thanks!

The Y output is an analog sum of the RGB outputs, so addressing it individually won’t be possible. It is possible from the RGB outputs, by purposely misaligning the start of active video with the start of the sync interval. So it could be in a list of things to consider in a future firmware version, but beyond the scope of the initial release. You can get creative by syncing things off of the image loader in the meantime though. Just make a still image with the top scanline white and the rest black, and that will create a vertical reset pulse. If you do this with Red line on top, Blue line on left, then you will have some usable HV syncs out of R and B jacks.

Will this module also output the HV sync signals through the power bus? That would be wonderful.

No, not unless we included an extra/secondary Euro power header (maybe there is room.) We took a lot of care for the Euro header to only touch the internal circuit thru its 12V connection, which goes thru the EMI filter. A buffered output coming from the core board (on a separate Euro connector) might be possible. A module that is specifically a legacy sync adapter might be the right answer, for that and 14-pin sync.

ZOMG you just blew my mind. That is so clever. Too bad it ties up a whole TBC channel. With a Chromagnon and a Syntonie decoder I should be fine, though.

But the headline here is actually “RGB channels carry arbitrary information”. In the digital graphics world we use channel packed textures all the time, carrying arbitrary parameters such as roughness and metalness in stacked channels in RGB files e.g. PNG. Now I’m realizing that can be applied here.

In combination with other tools e.g. Color Wheel we can do some really creative stuff with channel mapping, color space conversion, color correction etc.

I’d love to try processing footage in hardware or software to convert to and from YUV and HSV. Maybe there is a way to make the decoder outputs and/or encoder inputs handle YUV.

Exciting stuff!

Is there a limit to how many modules you can sync with one sync generator? Could you build a huge wall of DSG3’s synced to one ESG3?

Is there a limit to how many modules you can sync with one sync generator?

No limit… in Gen3 every sync node is buffered, so the transmission lines between modules should perform identically no matter how many modules are in the chain. No more loop thru weirdness woes.

Could you build a huge wall of DSG3’s synced to one ESG3?

Yep! During testing, I had 5x DSG3s and 5x ESG3s all synchronized at the same time.

Yes! Once it’s a voltage in sync with the video frame, the sky’s the limit. You could encode not just sync pulses for oscillators, but different sync patterns in an image. So “image loader” seems like a mundane feature at first glance, but in our context, it’s wildly powerful.

Yeah, we could for example make a still image that has H and V ramps plus a wipe gradient, each in a separate color channel!

much like what is covered here LZX Video Synth Techniques: Gradients - YouTube

I was hoping to jump into the HD arena as well but have mostly Cadets and a Vidiot. I know the Vidiot is a beast that will forever roam SD land, but I was looking at the schematics for Cadet IX and Cadet IV to see whether it would be possible to cobble some HD into them or if my system would need a total upgrade.

On Cadet IV, C18 and C29 could probably be swapped out for something smaller to generate the appropriately sized ramps, yes?

I think Cadet IX should be okay (unless the timing cap here is also too large), but perhaps the op-amps on the exponential converter would need to change over to something faster for HD FM inputs? I remember LM6172 not being recommended in place of the TL072s in this case – there was a better suggestion earlier in the forum I can’t recall off the top of my head.

Forgive me if this has been answered already elsewhere or if I’m barking up the wrong tree!

That should work, but you may run into an issue finding perfect cap values to replace them with.
Let me run a simulation real quick… (time passes)

This is directly from the Cadet IV’s schematic (The H-rate section). The trimmer (R1) is for adjusting the ramp’s peak to exactly 1V.

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If I change the sync rate from 15.734KHz to … 33.75kHz, then a cap of about 22nF to 24nF results in close to a 1V peak. 24nF is about the highest you should use since the tolerance of any given ceramic cap might be 10- or 20% higher.

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Tayda has 18nF and 22nF ceramic caps, so it should be easy to find one that fits. The trimmer, R1, should let you trim it to 1.0V even if you’re use the 18nF cap.

Changing the cap is the easy part. Getting the HD sync pulses on a 14-pin ribbon cable will be more difficult. @joem may be working on this though.

The timing cap will still work. You will just be limited by fewer bars. Changing the cap with the ratio we used above should get you fixed up.

EDIT:

I corrected the H-rate pulse width in my simulation to 525nS as listed in the LMH1980 datasheet. This changed the perfect cap value closer to 27nF. 18nF should still work since the R1 trimmer allows for such a wide range of attenuation.

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Indeed I am. I’ll update in that thread sometime soonish hopefully when I have some more progress.

That’s amazing, thank you very much @Fox!

And yes, I was/am indeed watching @joem’s project intently

For the record, I found the LMH1980 datasheet to list tHSOUT for an HD, H-sync pulse width as 525nS, not 4.7uS as I had originally simulated. The best cap value is now 27nF. 18nF will still work since the R1 trimmer allows for such a large range of attenuation.

That 525ns is the propagation delay to expect between input and the logic outputs in the SD input modes of the LMH1980. This equates to exactly 10 clock periods of the 27 MHz pixel clock. (That’s what I have programmed as the correction factor in ESG3 firmware.) The actual HSYNC period for HD is about half of the period for SD.

A good way to do the 14 pin sync adapter would be with an embedded fpga sync generator to generate the pulses and genlock to an external source. So it could be implemented with the plugin syncgen boards from the ESG3 or the VU007B I reckon.

LMH1980 generates both HSYNC and VSYNC, and auto-detects between SD and HD, so it’s a good option if you want to integrate sync separator directly into each module.

Ah-hah. Thanks for pointing that out. 525nS sounded a bit too short, but I am still reading about the finer details of HD sync.

I am still a little confused with the LMH1980 datasheet. tdHSOUT is listed as the 60nS propagation delay and tHSOUT as the 525nS pulse output.

When considering a ramp, should the falling edge of CSOUT trigger the shorting of the cap and the rising edge of the BPOUT begin the charging phase? I was only worried about HSOUT, but tri-level sync is different than SD.

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You’re right on the timing details! I was mixed up on the SD vs HD timings in my head. 525nS is right.

For ESG3, we have the HD pulse width set to 44 cycles of the 74.25MHz or 74.176MHz reference clocks, so ~590ns.

That becomes very tricky – the right answer is that you start the ramp on pixel #1 when the AVID region goes high – and that timing is variable per video format. So it’s not something you can get a precise reference for from the LMH1980 alone – you’d need to tune the ramp start phase per format to get it perfect (maybe adjustable monostable delay of HSync with a trimmer?) Easier to base this on a sync generator/FPGA that is responsible for all of the timing. This is ultimately why we didn’t go with an analog PLL based ramp generator for DSG3 – we had an “auto calibrating” ramp circuit working beautifully, but the blanking periods would have had to be manually adjusted.

That said, all you need for a “working” ramp generator is a stable hsync reset – it doesn’t have to start exactly in the right spot to be patchable!

Hello everybody!
I’d like to connect Vidiot mini jack outputs on the panel (i.e. the diamond output) as video source for ESG3. I set the format switch to PAL.
However, the diamond shape image is not synced and it is scrolling left to right.

How to stabilize it?
thanx! : )

I don’t have either - but, you’d need to connect sync out from esg3 to a sync in on the vidiot

As far as I know there’s no sync in in the Vidiot…am I wrong?

I checked the manual - you could try the horizontal sync input - page 7/8 of the manual item 18 - worth a try at least

or see page 13!

I believe you can send the sync from the back of the ESG to the camera input of the Vidiot.
Or you can send the the Vidiot’s video output (or maybe the Eye output?) to the sync input on the back of the ESG.
Or if you have something connected to the Vidiot’s camera input, you can send the camera output to the ESG.
You’ll have to set the ESG to generate or receive sync accordingly.

Thank you it works by VIDIOT camera output to ESG3 sync input!

That’s how I sync my system

If you are using ESG3’s component output for monitoring, you can also send it’s composite output to Vidiot’s composite input for sync. That also gives you an optional feedback output from Vidiot, if you want it.

Would using the ESG3 as an output module for Rutt-Etra type stuff make any difference/sense?

I mean using the HQ mode.

Just ordered one in order to get better quality video out from my setup and haven’t looked into the other possible benefits and use cases yet.

It’s been a while, hello everyone!!

Welcome back! Are you using any older LZX modules in your vector rescanning patches and want to work ESG3 into the mix?

Thanks!!

Yes. I’ve got the usual suspects: VC, Passage, Nav and Shapechanger.

If you are using Visual Cortex as part of your patch, you will be limited to NTSC/PAL when syncing your ESG3. I don’t think you would see any change in your vector rescan workflow by adding ESG3.

That makes sense. Thanks!
Actually I do have the TBC2 so by using that the only thing coming from the VC would be the ramps.

Well the ramps are synced, so anything out of the Cortex is still limited to NTSC/PAL. However…TBC2 makes its own ramps, so you would have an HD ramp source there. TBC2 can replace Cortex in your rescan patches.

I will definitely give this a try.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who has done this with the new modules as of how noticeable the difference is.

TBC2 is good for HD ramps, I have tested this in a vector scan processing workflow.

If you care about the cleanest possible ramps, with no crosstalk, follow this procedure. Crosstalk between ramps will manifest as skewing of the raster, it won’t be perfectly rectangular.

Use one channel of TBC2 for the video image, if any.

Set up the other channel of TBC2 to output ramps. One of them on the Red output, the other on the Blue output. Turn the Green output off entirely… disabled.

But you know what, I got more control by using DWO3 or VU009 sawtooths to generate ramps. If you’re not able to get a single sawtooth cycle out of DWO3, send a static voltage (e.g. Matte) into the CV input and set the attenuverter to negative. This will slow down the oscillator more than you can by just turning the frequency down all the way.

I was wondering about HD vs SD ramps within the context of vector rescanning and lo and behold, it’s actively being discussed here. I’m considering buying a TBC2 for many reasons, one being the ramps.

Right now I use both VC and Diver as ramp generators. Doing a lot of rutt etra type stuff with external video/images, but also stuff without external inputs (shapes, patterns etc generated within the system). I don’t want to change my workflow for the rescanning portion (I’d like to keep what I’m filming off the X-Y displays as SD, so I can process the rescan video with all of the normal SD LZX modules, rest of my projects are in SD as well) but if I could increase the resolution of the ramps in my vector patching (using ramps from TBC2), I’m assuming I’d get a lot more detail within whats displayed on the vector screen itself… am I understanding that correctly? Almost as if the “fabric” that is the ramps is larger, or to put it another way, if the gain wasn’t adjusted on the display the ramps themselves would be much larger.

I use navigator pretty early in the chain in nearly every vector patch, would still work to rotate the TBC2 ramps? It’d need to be synced to TBC2?

Very basic example of what I’m envisioning:
TBC2 (Set to an HD resolution)
Encoder A- R (h ramp) G (v ramp) B (n/a) (as described by dryodryo above)
Encoder B- media loader high def sized image

Both Encoder A H+V Ramps to Navigator (synced to tbc2?)

Navigator outputs to 2 cadet crossfaders
Encoder B image mixed in to taste for displacement effect

Crossfader output to X-Y display
(And run the Luma from encoder b the TBC2 to the Z input)

X-Y display rescaned by SD camera
Colorized, keyed to taste, etc etc then output by VC

So I guess I’m kinda suggesting an HD path to the XY displays then a seperate SD path for rescanning. In my head it makes sense that there’d be a big difference using these ramps instead, HD video is much larger, but I’m not sure if it translates the way that I think it does.

You could also use Angles for ramps. NGL, TBC2 ramp randomize function is pretty fun.

Your display’s Z axis may not be able to cleanly resolve HD luma as I don’t think I’ve seen a vector monitor that can do over 10MHz on Z. The output impedance of your modules also makes a difference in whether the available details are cleanly output or simply low pass filtered.

If you are rescanning in SD prior to encode/capture, I’m not sure you’ll really be able to tell a difference regardless of how sharp HD ramps/footage appears on the monitor. You’re effectively downscaling at your colorizer/encoder stage with VC.

Post some comparisons if you end up going down this route!

I’m not 100% sure I completely understand all of that, but I can offer a few thoughts. Everything @rempesm said is true, I just want to add a couple points.

Vector monitors with a bandwidth higher than 10 MHz don’t exist, but XYZ oscilloscopes do. I have one that has 30 MHz on the Z axis. But it’s a moot point if the dot size is too large relative to the screen size. That’s the limiting factor for the vector display part of the patch.

HD ramps will give more detail than SD ramps. This is a big aesthetic difference, because SD ramps will more clearly “delineate” the lines of the raster. In my experiments with HD ramps, I’m getting much softer, ethereal, gossamer translucency rather than visible scanlines. The raster is rendering much more as a surface than as a bunch of lines. But this is also dependent on your settings. Suffice to say that an HD ramps setup can achieve some of the characteristic “looks” of an SD setup, but not so much the other way around.

In my experience, the performance of TBC2 as an up/down converter leaves something to be desired. I’m seeing it drop frames all over the place. So in any event, I recommend keeping everything in the system in the same format: camera, decoder, and encoder. As @rempesm points out, the Visual Cortex is the limiting factor here. ESG3 or Chromagnon is what you need if you’re trying to get more detail in the final product.

Also, a genlock setup is preferable to wild sync into TBC2. I’m getting frame tearing. A camera genlocked to TBC2, or a whole system genlocked to the camera via a Syntonie decoder, should solve the frame tearing issue. I guess this might also work by sending a copy of the camera’s composite or Y signal into the TBC2 Sync input? More experimentation is needed.

Good Day,

For the record- Chromagnon has NOT shipped right? I’ve moved twice since I Bought it however many years now. 4-5 I take it. It’s hard to keep up. Thanks

Ofield

For someone who has a Vidiot already, they can choose between keeping their Vidiot and adding a Chromagnon or replacing their Vidiot with a Chromagnon.

I’m not sure buying a Vidiot is an option anymore. So, for someone who doesn’t have a Vidiot, the choice may be much simpler. Either buy a Chromagnon or not. I’m in this position, BTW. The Vidiot never interested me, I didn’t buy one and now I don’t have that option. You may be more fortunate, but I don’t know.

So, if you can still buy a Vidiot then your question makes the most sense. Regardless, I’d recommend waiting until a demo video is posted before making any commitments. You can compare it with the Vidiot demo when that video appears on the LZX YouTube channel.

There’s the odd vidiot Comes up for sale used

I would ignore to some extent the number of available patch points

The important thing is what you can do with it

Chromagnon has many apparent advantages over vidiot

More video inputs - including colour

High def analog video output

Image Rotation

Laser compatibility

A ton of buttons and switches - some of which may change internal routing of some patch points - idk I am speculating a bit here!

As nerdware said - wait for the demos and compare - there may be a few more vidiots available used at that time too

This thread might give you a better impression of Chromagnon’s capabilities (though wait for a demo video, if you’re still not sure):

The way I see it Chromagnon will be the best of Vidiot and Visual Cortex (and Navigator, Shapechanger, Mapper, and Staircase) packed into one module. I think the key difference you’re looking for is that the Vidiot excels primarily at making grids of shapes with a pair of oscillators, but can’t do rotating quadrilateral figures or any of the tricks that a Nav+SC combo would give you. From what I gather, Chromagnon is going to have the complexity to make patterns and shapes far above and beyond what Vidiot is capable of, and with wavefolding it will likely be able to generate grid of shapes too, but with many more possibilities for modulation and animation. Also worth noting that Chromagnon has several built in modulation vectors, whereas Vidiot only has scrolling horizontal bars.

Can Chromagnon actually rotate an image? I thought it was just the ramps, but perhaps I’ve missed something. Anyway, I don’t recall Vidiot doing any kind of rotating, so Chromagnon definitely wins on that feature. I agree with all your other points. I’d add 1080 component input, too. I think that’s a really big feature.

So what does Vidiot have that Chromagnon doesn’t? Two oscillators, for a start. It’s small size is another factor, making it easier to carry to gigs etc. One of the suggested Vidiot applications is video feedback using a B/W camera and monitor. I don’t think Chromagnon is so well suited for that.

You’d need Memory Palace or some kind of frame buffer to perform image rotation. Processing a Luma camera signal using Navigator and Shapechanger (effectively the MK1 versions of what has been described in Chromagnon) will just get you a brighter or darker image.

Rotating ramps in the context of a scan processing patch displayed on a XY monitor (or ILDA if you have super fast galvos on your laser) would appear to rotate the image as the H/V ramps are defining an arbitrary raster.

Yes, it looks like Chromagnon can instead rotate the chroma part of the signal, not luma.

Am I right in thinking Chromagnon will let you access the luma part of the input and then feed the result back into Chromagnon to be recombined with the processed chroma part?

So much of this is speculation! We really need to see that demo video.

as no demo is available yet I guessed that if this is replacing shapeshifter and navigator that it would enable image rotation of some kind… maybe just wishful thinking on my part - fingers crossed!

Well, a new module like this encourages a degree of wishful thinking! For a short time, I wondered if Chromagnon could process HD video internally. I’ll be really impressed if it can do this, but now I seriously doubt it. I’d like to be wrong, but we’ll see.

exactly - from what I’ve read I would assume that if you can put HD analogue video in and get HD analogue video out then the entire workflow would work like that - downscaling on the fly adds complications - and I remember reading somewhere that a lot of the expedition modules (staicase etc ) can handle HD analogue - it was just never an option before
think about it - it’s really about recognizing the frame and line markers in the stream - so as long as the circuits can handle a faster signal it shouldn’t be an issue
but I might be wrong!

I just sold my Vidiot on reverb to pay for my chromagnon preorder. I’d assume that once chromagnon does drop that people who wish to replace the Vidiot in their setup will put them up for sale. So their may be an influx of used vidiots for sale at that point in time.

Perhaps–but those who keep Vidiot will be rewarded by patching it into Chromagnon.

Oh yes. See the Chroma and Luma buttons on the right side? Those are selecting where the output color converter’s sources come from. So you could have a gradient shape colorized by the chrominance of input video only, etc. Or colorize luma video with a gradient created by the XY shape generating chroma, etc.

Chromagnon can rotate the luma or the chroma. Luma rotation will look like a continuous solarizer.

Chromagnon will process whatever native format it’s internal sync generator is running in: any of the SD/HD resolutions. The HD image may look a little soft on very hard edges, but this is a machine designed for linear edge processing, so, at worst, in HD it will look like a “very high quality/organic SD upscale” with a little horizontal filtering.

Note that the video inputs (CVBS/Component) are directly into the TBC. So they go thru the digital subsystem for time base correction before entering the analog signal path. The frontpanel RGB 1V inputs are direct inputs to the analog path. All of the outputs (video, laser, 1V) are fully analog.

The digital subsystem manages sync and TBC – so the TBC will scale whatever your input video is to whatever your “house sync” format is automatically. There’s a lot of auto-detect/auto-switch code in the digital system, so for the most part, it should just work without much worry.

Video input, auto-sync enabled = “house sync” matches video input format
Video input, auto-sync disabled = “house sync” matches programmed sync format, and video inputs scale to match
Video input + sync input = “house sync” matches sync input, and video inputs scale to match
Sync input only = “house sync” matches input sync
No input = “house sync” matches programmed sync format

Excellent! That confirms it, thanks.

Don’t make me feel bad! I already miss my little robot!

It would be best to use 3.5mm jacks, since Chromagnon’s XY outputs are also 3.5mm.

I don’t know enough about Vectrex hacking to advise on other modifications.
It’s going to be really exciting to see Chromagnon’s vector applications in action!

Make sure to add 3x switching jacks to tap the Vectrex’s XYZ cartridge signals for processing. I’m excited for Minestorm regurgitated by Chromagnon.

You might also consider adding the spot killer mod on a switch which can help with displaying lower frequency content. I have left this off of the ones I’ve modded as it increases the chance of burning the phosphor if you’re not careful.

As @Z0NK0UT mentions, 3.5mm jacks is the way to go.
Current LZX gear outputs 0-1v which is much lower than Eurorack and too weak to drive the Vectrex and fill the whole screen. Unless the Chromagnon can scale the output voltage up to eurorack levels which I doubt, you’ll want to bring those levels up with either the LZX Bridge utility or the LZX Cadet V DIY module edit: NEVERMIND @Z0NK0UT confirms that it will scale up! I’d go with the Cadet V unit since it has 4 channels vs two on the Bridge and the Vectrex has three inputs, xyz. I also find the LZX Passage (or three Cadet VII Processors) very useful at adjusting positioning and mixing the signals going into the Vectrex.
While waiting for the Chromag, if you have any eurorack hardware, the Vectrex will work great with it. You can connect VCO and CV right into it. Something as simple as the Behringer Neutron will provide tons of fun. Easy patch: Send the LFO to the OSC Shape and then patch each VCO outputs to X and Y of the Vectrex and will get you very cool animations that match the sound waves being played.

One thing to note with the Vectrex is that it doesn’t sca as fast and can’t keep up with video signals like an oscilloscope can so things like Rutt Etra may not be possible. In my attempts at this the image tends to roll over itself horizontally. It would be neat if the Chromag had a way of adjusting the horizontal refresh rate but my understanding of the subject is not sufficient to know if that’s even possible.

As it stands, even with a Bridge or Cadet Scaler, LZX output will not take on the full spectrum of a Vectrex, only a small portion. However, any old oscilloscope will be just fine.

If perhaps the Chromag has some signal boost on top, I’m not sure how compatible the two may be.

In all my browsing I haven’t seen the “nominal” input range for a modded Vextrex - is it safe to assume +/-5V or perhaps higher to get FSD?

I guess one approach could be to use an LZX Cadet Scaler to go from +1V to +/-5V, then another Euro module (ie, my favourite - Befaco AxB+C) for the final gain adjustment?

This is exactly what I use with my Vectrex.

Ahh, great to know!
Have you measured the voltages required to drive the Vextrex, otherwise what gain are you using on the AxB+C?

Back to the original question - I’d go with switched jacks as suggested above.
When I finally get around to modding my Vectrex, I might even use 6.5mm switched jacks - it’s easy to get a 3.5mm to 6.5mm adapters, and I have a lot more 6.5mm cables in longer lengths than I do 3.5mm…

Chromagnon will have onboard scaling for the XYZ outputs, since we know they are destined for inputs requiring more than the 1V LZX standard.

“I’d go with switched jacks as suggested above.
When I finally get around to modding my Vectrex, I might even use 6.5mm switched jacks”
Rik_bS

That’s how I’ve modified my Vectrexes https://youtu.be/q3sKZA2r7qk

Did you follow a specific ‘Hack Tutorial’ for the switchable jacks? I’m a bit of an electrical noob and have only seen Duff’s (very great but) basic tutorial .pdf

if you get Switchcraft 12A jacks it’s not too hard to see how to wire them up. if I come across one, I can take a picture and label the tabs you connect to

i’d really appreciate that, thank you!

It’s a good question.
Chromagnon doesn’t have Vidiot’s independent H&V oscillators, dedicated luma processor or RGB controls, and its keying interface will be different. You will be able to achieve similar results with either instrument, but in different ways. Owning both won’t be redundant.

The Wogglebug outputs random voltages at a clocked rate, whereas the sequencer outputs user-defined voltages at a clocked rate.

I would recommend starting with the sequencer because it allows you to program voltage patterns that you can send to both audio and video synthesizers.

The Korg SQ1 is nice because it can send out voltage scaled to an LZX-friendly 0-1V. Also, it’s standalone and battery powered. If you get a Wogglebug, you will have to get a Eurorack case to use it.
Chromagnon will have control voltage inputs and outputs to patch with SQ1 and your Tachyons gear.

Thanks for the reply!

On the Korg website, under the CV Out Voltage it says “1V, 2V, 5V (Oct) 8V (Hz/V)”

The T+ gear operates at a -5, +5 V range so I’m assuming this will be fine, but what does Oct mean in this context?

Octave

1v/octave
2v/octave etc

8V(Hz/V) is for buchla synthesizers iirc

normal eurorack audio oscillators track at 1v/oct - each note is represented by a 1/12 of an octave offset from the octave do for example c3 might be 3V, c1 would be 1V, c4 would be 4V - d3 would be 3.1667V etc etc

you may only get +ve values out of sq1

Whoa I just realized that I can sequence within the 1st octave of my sequencer to stay in 0-1v LZX range. Thanks,

Everything went up on our Instagram, some immortalized in highlights:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CxDd95pOpvF/?hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17867300924461938/?hl=en

Thank you! This was exactly the fix I needed. It looks amazing!!

Nov-dec would be awesome. But always give LZX release windows a +/- 5 years variance range in your expectations

Needs to be scaled down to 0-1 year

20 characters of clapping emoji

I can’t speak for this situation specifically, but usually when a retailer offers pre-orders, that means they’ve already placed orders with the manufacturer. Manufacturers usually fulfill orders in the order they arrived in, and it’s hard to say when PC placed their order. But sometimes smaller (read: Eurorack-size) manufacturers will fulfill all direct customer pre-orders before sending any stock to retailers, if the orders end up needing to be split over multiple batches.

Further muddying the issue of timing: Some retailers limit the amount of pre-orders available on their site to the number of pre-orders the retailer placed with the manufacturer, while others don’t. Others still might list a product as available for pre-order before they’ve even placed an order with the manufacturer. So no matter what LZX can tell you about when PC is getting a batch, there’s no way to correlate that with when PC will be processing your specific order.

One thing is for certain, though: Rest assured LZX will be cranking them out as fast as they possibly can!

Truth.

Also, to be clear, dealers and direct buyers are in the same queue. Shipments go out by order number sequence.

Awesome thanks for clearing that up!