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so this is the layout for the keying section display?

there are 8 hv ramps (HV>),
4 described “patches” (>XY),
and 12 modes for the porter duff compositor (RGB>)
that leaves 3 options for both DST LUMA (XYK>) and DST CHRO (>RGB)

Screen Shot 2020-08-07 at 9.01.57 AM896×656 183 KB

in the signal flow both the DST LUMA and CHRO have 3:1 mux

with the names of the buttons would make sense

luma
key, shape and max (assuming that is the 1v white)
chroma
src, xy, and none (assuming that is the 0v black)

I’m feeling some wheels clicking into place about this layout

it seems like this trick (seen in the video below) I stumbled onto the other day with the v440 mixer and switching between two sources luma/chroma combinations was not a coincidence but maybe mental preparation for chromagnon

I was looking at this and thinking a similar thing just a few weeks ago. I didn’t bother working out all the details, but I realised a Chromagnon would work better for me than a whole lot of other modules and/or external devices, like a V440. Every time I look at that mixer, I come to the same conclusion. This signal flow/generation/processing explanation confirms it. Thanks, Lars.

However, the real big selling point, for me, is the power and case. Clean power with a stand-alone case wins. If I can also rack it on 84hp rails, that’s another winning feature. Chromagnon looks like it has all of that, but I’ll hold back my excitement until its available from a UK shop.

Thanks.

Neat!
Any idea when the first video will drop?

The first video will drop after a complete Chromagnon unit is finished and delivered to Johnny Woods. Right now the team is finishing TBC2.

Super stoked! I’d love to make some examples too when my first day pre-order arrives.

So helpful! The anticipation has been stoked.

A note on Chromagnon’s video i/o:
It will support “240p/288p/480p/576p/720p/1080p30. We could even add some timing profiles to match some weirder formats as well. On the rear we have an 8 position dip switch. 1 switch turns sync auto-detect on/off – with it on, system genlock switches to match the format of the TBC input source if no sync input is present. Auto-detect is always on for the sync/genlock input, and that overrides any TBC input source. The other 7 bits select up to 128 different video standards. So in the case of using Chromagnon with no input, or as master sync gen, you will select your default video format with these switches.”

1080p video feedback possibilities ermahgerd!!! Can’t wait.

Does this mean it will sync to arbitrary rates that fit the data rate but are not specified? If not I would love to see standard SMPTE rates like 24p, 23.98p, 29.97p, 59.94i, 59.94p

I wasn’t familiar with “Porter-Duff”. Upon googling I found this image (it happens to have 12 examples )

Will most of these compositions be essentially possible?

This corresponds with the 12 compositor modes available in Chromagnon.

Thanks for clarifying, very exciting!

Lars, quoted from FB comments, says:

The number of frame synchronizers in a system you need is equal to the number of input sources minus one. So with Chromagnon + Visual Cortex, you can have two external sources. One is the master timing reference, and the other is frame synchronized by Chromagnon’s TBC. Key to the Automata series concept is that all units include a TBC and a 2:1 RGB function. Meaning each device can mix itself into an external source. RGB inputs are separate from the decoder/TBC section. Yes, you can feed the outputs back through the TBC in feedback mode while still using the RGB inputs.
Visual Cortex locks itself to the timing of an external source. That external source can also be fed to an input decoder, so you can patch the video through the system. Visual Cortex has to slave itself to the external timing in order for this to work. Chromagnon locks itself to the timing of an external source via the genlock input (or not, can be free running). Where it differs is that the input decoder has a TBC/frame sync this time. So the external sync/genlock source and the external video source don’t have to be one in the same. Meaning we can sync Chromagnon #2 to Chromagnon #1, while both of them can frame sync an asynchronous external video feed, resulting in two synchronous external input channels. So technically Chromagnon has two external inputs (Genlock/Sync Input and External Video inputs). Whereas Visual Cortex only has one (Input Decoder and Genlock/Sync Generator must be the same).

so with a visual cortex, chromagnon, TBC2 setup you could have 4 external sources?

Correct. TBC2 and Chromagnon share the same video input platform.

oh wow things are going to get wild

^Agreed!! Had to jump on the pre-order bandwagon!!!

It’s stated that the chromagnon will replace the functionality of the polar fringe, yet no joystick, I’m not all too sure about how this will work. So I’m wondering if this is going to be built in to the modulation section. Also does this mean an eventual discontinuation of polar fringe?

here is some info from lars on facebook

"Note that with Chroma (PbPr) to XY inputs, the shape generator is producing a chroma key.

Since the XY processor performs at video rate bandwidths, it can process the PbPr (Chroma) channels of the input video source as UV colorspace (which is a two dimensional plane.) For example, X & Y Position become PbPr offsets (hue selection). Rotation becomes Hue shift, and Gain becomes Saturation. So to process chroma we first convert RGB to PbPr, then feed those to the X & Y inputs. Then we take the X & Y outputs and convert them back to RGB (along with a luma component). This is complex in the block diagram, but easy on the synth – you just select “Chroma” as the “Vector Mode.”

So imagine this (UV at constant luminance) as the “2D plane” that is being processed/generated by the XY Processor, when we feed in Chroma as the vector source.

Yes, that is the key idea behind this instrument! General purpose XY processor (analogue computer style) with a lot of complex interfacing that allows its use as color processor, colorizer, shape/key generator, vector rescan driver, etc. I hope it gets people to think about how all of these applications are driven by similar math at their core. There is also a Polar-to-Cartesian processor in the XY Processor (the “modulation vector.”) This can take angle and distance inputs and give XY outputs. The Angle input can be used for a direct voltage to Hue function, which allows for a Luma-to-Hue map colorizer."

Starting to wonder why all the juicy info gets posted to Facebook? Thank you to the folks who are reposting it here, I’m sure I’m not the only one ethically opposed to having a Facebook account. (I was on there a regrettable 9 years)

I think it’s because people are on it all the time anyway. It’s designed to be addictive, after all.

An addiction my life is so much better without now. Don’t want to preach or belittle anyone here, but the idea that Facebook is something we need in our lives is an illusion, and I’ve been super great without it for over two years. The fact that LZX has this forum site is most supreme, considering the current era of some companies main presence only being on Facebook or Twitter. Thank you!

Totally understood, but used as a tool and not a portal to ego, facobook can be used as a forum for all the forms you are interested in. In my opinion of course. Personally i use it for many types of synthesis discussions and or informational groups, audio, video synthesis, drum machines. Sound design. Anything can be a tool or a distraction, it’s how it’s used. With all due respect.

A little update for those not on Facebook; Lars posted,
“RevB units were built and passed all tests so far. This is after a lengthy review of all the RevA boards over the Summer. Jonah, Nick and the assembly team have been kicking ass on that and just getting on top of production prep. I’m holed away still with my software project for tbc2/Chromagnon/mempal, and almost ready to show it off. This week I also need to dig in to the RevB review, during which I hope to start showing some video.”

Austin James just asked a couple of questions regarding the #Chromagnon’s 1080 output & it’s composite output on the FB page, I can’t copy the text so here’s a screenshot.

IMG_20201011_192542668×726 121 KB

@LILWILLY, you beat me to the line

i took the robbertunity

Note to self, posts must be 20 characters long

Some ILDA ideas from Lars:
“Radiator into Chromagnon adds an additional analog rotator/processor/recolorizer to the ILDA signal chain. So you could use it to add an additional rotary access with direct displacement via audio and CV.”

“…there are multiple YUV/RGB converters in there. It’s going to process whatever it’s fed as continuous 0-5V RGB and +/-5V XY voltages. There’s all sorts of neat tricks. For example you could use the chrominance of the RGB channels as a Cartesian displacement vector for the XY path.”

Hi I think I saw something about being able to scale the output to an oscilloscope when working with x-y graphics. Can you also invert the output or would I need to do that elsewhere? Im looking for an oscilloscope but some has a z axis that lowers the brightness with higher voltage.

I believe the gain controls for X/Y/Luma do not invert, so you would have to invert the signal after Chromagnon.

Am I understanding correctly, that I would be able to connect a video source such as a VHS deck as an input to Chromagnon without a TBC in between, and it would time base correct it for a clean picture?

Chromagnon incorporates its own TBC at the input, allowing you to send in full color video from signals like a VCR.

How easy would it be to do the camera-at-a-screen feedback workflow on Chromagnon? The one the Vidiot is known for.

More specifically, would it be possible to have a chain like [external video in > Chromagnon processing > video to screen > camera > feedback into Chromagnon > capture solution out]?

It seems like it should, but I’m not 100% able to tell from the info that’s out there.

If you’re planning to work with Chromagnon as a standalone unit, it would only sync to one external video input. Your second camera wouldn’t be synced to Chromagnon when you try to feed it back into the module. Probably would still look neat as a feedback source but you’d need to use something like the upcoming TBC2 or other means of genlocking your equipment to get additional synced inputs.

I’ve had pretty good success with using Extron VSC700 boxes as a cheaper alternative for full color synced inputs and have posted a few times on the forum about them.

EDIT: Oh wait, that’s not quite correct–I’ll eat some of my words here.

Since there is a RCA genlock input on the back and an external video input on the front that feeds into a frame synchronizer, you could feasibly loop your external video into the genlock input to get Chromagnon synchronized to that. Then put the other source into the external video input which will be frame synchronized.

You’d need to loop the external video going into the genlock input through the other RCA sync out connector and use some other type of video input module like Cadet III to condition the signal before patching it into Chromagnon. A RCA to 3.5MM adapter would work if you could strip the sync off the signal before patching it. Things might be a bit screwy otherwise.

If they’re asking about a set-up possible with Vidiot, I think they’re actually referring to a simple, single camera situation, no? So the signal flow would be:

Camera pointed at monitor > Chromagnon > Monitor + Capture

Processing possibilities are of course different than Vidiot, but that should work just fine.

And, indeed, since Chromagnon has multiple outputs — which I assume, like Visual Cortex, can be used at the same time — it will be easier to monitor and capture simultaneously (not that it is hard to make that happen with Vidiot but it does require something to distribute/pass the signal externally).

I should have clarified, I was thinking about combining that single camera workflow with an additional external video source. So a seed video goes in (such as gradient stills), gets processed, then goes back in as a feedback source as well.

Ah, okay. Well then, yes, you would need a second device to get that second external input into your system (same as you would with Vidiot).

Sync won’t really be as much of an issue with Chromagnon (as it is with Vidiot) because its external input has a built-in TBC.

1 video mixer at the end of the chain mixing/keying feedback with output

2 video mixer in front of chromagnon mixing/keying between feedback and source

3 take a 1/8 LZX standard video signal into one of the many video rate modulation inputs (assuming you’ve got modules that produce those signals)

4 camera -> mult -> chromagnon sync, dirty mixer A channel
still source -> dirty mixer B channel
dirty mixer out -> chromagnon video input
because things are sync’d together I would imagine you’d get the result you are after with this! I could be misunderstanding how those two inputs work with each other though

those would be the places that I would start messing around with that kind of workflow

Follow up question since you guys are so helpful and I’m struggling with capture options. Chromagnon has distinct Chroma/Luma/Shape modes. What type of workflow should I look for to run a single video through Chromagnon multiple times?

For example: [external video > Luma pass through Chromagnon > (record) shape pass > (record) Chroma pass > digital capture]. I suspect you could get amazing results from varying the order of operations and compositing modes on Chromagnon. But I can’t think of an elegant way to do this.

Something like [DVD player > Chromagnon > Ambery analog to HDMI convertor > Atomos Ninja 2 > computer > burn DVD > repeat]. That sounds too slow. Or maybe two shuttle recorders, rotating which is the input and output?

What type of workflows have people used for this? Anything from dirt cheap to primo…I’m stretched on budget but willing to save up for upgrades eventually. It’d be a shame not to take advantage of 1080i60 component outs on Chromagnon.

It might be easier to use a source that also records, so you can switch between your recorder and source in the chain. For example, 2x Atmos Ninjas, or a DVD recorder and a DVD player, or two laptops, or an Andor and a laptop, or any combination of these.

Maybe better to continue this discussion in one of the capture threads, as Chromagnon isn’t necessarily relevant to the methodology. You could apply this workflow to any processor.

So I’ve been thinking about how to use TBC2 and chromagnon to distribute sync between two cases. TBC2 has an rca sync out, so would sending this output to chromagnon on its video input sync the two cases?

I’m going over the 12 compositor modes and trying to match them up with the examples posted.

this post is showing some interesting data about how these modes will work

Screen Shot 2020-08-07 at 8.49.49 AM1500×1232 212 KB

Is this the way the modes are laid out?
I’m assuming “clear” should be “add”

going over the data and matching the names up really helps be able to spins some more wheels about chromagnon.

I’d like to do a module layout with graphviz to approximate the navigator,shapechanger,staircase,polar fringe,mapper layout chromagnon can be.

I’m having a hard time fully understanding the polar fringe (is it used in the 12 compositor modes?) mapper (is it in the RGB to YUV conversion?) and staircase (I’m reading the 2d staircase explanation but don’t really get it) modules places in the patch.

I’m excited to understand it better!

also in preparation for the chromagnon I think it makes sense to try making a single modulation source that gets sent to many places in a patch. I personally haven’t really used that technique yet.

Hello all, on the fence about diving into video synthesis for some Rutt Etra visuals. I have a 12u on normal eurorack. Would the Chromagnon cover all the territory in the example patch on this site? Aside of course from the cctv and XY display? If not, what would I be lacking?

Chromagnon provides an all-in-one vector rescanning workflow. You would use the X/Y/Shape outputs (which will have rear panel trimmers to tailor the output to your vector monitor) into your X/Y/Z inputs.

More from Lars about the compositor:
[Chromagnon’s] Porter-Duff compositor is a 2-channel RGB mixer driven by two separate key sources controlling the gain of each channel. The key sources come from a few multiplexed min/max and summing amp circuits, so all the Porter-Duff logic is created there.
When both alpha channels are active, I expect a lot more negative space in the resulting composition in comparison to what we’re used to with raster patterns – since you have a multitude of ways to constrain two sources onto a black backdrop, and can easily avoid the “full frame wiggly rainbow square” look.

What I was trying to say was: avoiding the “full frame wiggly rainbow square” look. is overrated!

has Memory Palace similar power needed
to a Crohmagnon?

• 550 mA +12V
• 50 mA -12V
• 0 mA 5V

Chromagnon could pull as much as 1.5A (1500mA) on the positive rail. This is still an estimate and is on the high side of the possible range.

Was curious about Chromag — is it possible to combine the feedback path/mode with external inputs, or have the two interact in any way? Also, is there a way to switch between feedback and external input modes via CV (or USB)? Thanks

Feedback is considered an external input, so you wouldn’t be able to combine it with incoming video. Input sources are only selected manually, not via CV or USB.

You could do this with a video mixer, I’ve heard. Use the mixer to mix the Chromagnon output and the external video, then plug the mixer output into the Chromagnon input.

Definitely! You could even put other devices into that feedback path, too.

Oh yeah, great idea. I wonder if there’s a mixer out there that could work in this instance, while still preserving Chromag’s HD signal path?

The V4EX / V8EX can accept HD Component over the VGA connector with a breakout cable I believe.

Awesome. That sounds like a pretty dang powerful setup.

This is true, and often upscales the input coming in quite significantly, as it’s a full rgb signal, instead of composite. Really makes a difference when going hdmi out on the big screen on a proper cinema (no pun intended) projector…

Moral of the story, component out wherever possible.

The Chromagnon RGB inputs use the 1V LZX modular video standard. Some folks have used Extron gear (as illuminated in other threads) to send RGB signals directly. TBC2 has an optional VGA expander, but you would have to convert VGA to component if using only Chromagnon.

Puzzled by the signal flow graph…Chromagnon’s TBC section is separate from its RGB in/out, right? So if I wanted to use it as both a synth/processor and an input/output encoder, I could?

For example: plug Chromagnon RGB outs into other video modules, process process process, send the signal into Chromagnon RGB ins, then capture out of Chromagnon’s YPbPr?

Could I plug an external source into Chromagnon RCA, take from RGB out, process it with other modules, send it back into the RGB in, process it with Chromagnon, then capture from the RCA out?

It is a synth/processor with a single input section and a single output section. It is not a combo TBC module + output encoder module with separate IOs. The YPbPr/CVBS inputs are just one of the ways to use the input section. If you patch into the RGB inputs, it will override anything going into the YPbPr/CVBS inputs.

If you are using Chromagnon as the base for a modular system, you would not use it like you would use a traditional Encoder + TBC in an LZX system. It’s a self contained voice, and any modules would expand the internal section (represented by the 9x analog controls/CV inputs, HV outs, etc. – that is, the part of the signal path between the video input and video output.)

Could I plug an external source into Chromagnon RCA, take from RGB out, process it with other modules, send it back into the RGB in, process it with Chromagnon, then capture from the RCA out?

If you did this, the external source would be overridden/detached when you patched back to the RGB inputs. You could patch the RGB outs through other modules and then feed them back into the CV inputs though, to create parameter feedback. You could patch the HV outs into other modules, create shapes, then use those as inputs to the CV modulation as well.

That makes way more sense. So the workflow of [Chromagnon > RGB processing > HD output] will not work without an additional Automata instrumen or a future output encoder.

So if I want to expand on Chromagnon without a second Chromagnon, CV modules are the main thing to add for now? The HV outs are basically like a Shapechanger/Navigator output and would require an output encoder. I’m very curious to see what this CV feedback would look like, though.

For a “self contained Chromagnon system” you don’t need additional encoders or TBCs (video IO), but any generator/processor modules (DSG3 Dual Shape, DWO3, Dual Osc, FKG3 Keyer, SMX3 Matrix Mixer) would be great expansion options.

So there are RCA sync input and output jacks on the back?

On the front panel graphic, I see a lowercase “s” on the TBC RCA jacks … “Y/Gs”. I presume this is sync.

Can Chromagnon sync to the incoming component signal?

What is the RGB standard for the RCA inputs to the TBC? I assume it’s 1V p/p. Is RGsB sync on green supported?

Is it possible to use the composite RCA jack as a sync input? RGBS?

Thanks!

Yes.

Yes.

Study this diagram first:

image960×633 92.6 KB

Its front panel YPbPr inputs go directly to a TBC so not in the way you’re thinking. Even if you mult the Y from a YPbPr signal into Chromagnon’s rear sync input to genlock it from that and then also into the front panel YPbPr inputs, it’s still going through a frame buffer before being passed to the next stage. If your goal is to have Chromagnon genlocked to an external source and input a YPbPr signal into its 3.5mm RGB LZX 0-1V standard connections while bypassing the TBC, you would need a separate input decoder module. Basically, mult your Y from a YPbPr source into Chromagnon’s rear sync input and then decode your YPbPr into RGB LZX 0-1V standard with a HD YPbPr input module that doesn’t exist yet. There are SD versions available like Syntonie’s VU003 for now.

Not sure on first question but second one, yes that’s the meaning of “Y/Gs”. It’s still going to go through a frame buffer though if you input RGsB into its front panel connectors. A separate RGsB input decoder module that doesn’t currently exist would let you bypass the TBC and plug directly into Chromagnon’s RGB LZX 0-1V standard connections, provided you had multed the Gs through to Chromagnon’s rear sync input.

Dunno but that might be useful! It would only allow for SD timings, presumably.

Thank you @rempesm –

I understand that the RCA input will always go through the TBC, delaying the source by one frame regardless of whether or not Chromagnon is genlocked to the source.

I do want to bypass the TBC so I am trying to figure out my options. Getting a lag-free RGBS signal out of a computer and into Chromagnon may be challenging. A YsUV to RGBS converter would do the trick, but they are probably unobtainium. Extron used to make one, back in 2009.

https://www.extron.com/product/cvc300

Maybe I can use an HDMI to DVI-D cable and this Extron converter?

https://www.extron.com/product/dvirgb200

BTW there are a couple of YUV → SCART converters available, but A) I think the voltages are not what Chromagnon expects, and B) I do not relish building a SCART breakout cable.

Just plan to use the YPbPr TBC inputs for your external video source – you’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, when there’s already a square hole!

I’m sorry, but getting a “lag free” signal out of a computer for quite literally anything for all intents and purposes is impossible by the sheer nature of how digital systems work. More importantly, it’s right in the territory of people sweating the purity of the copper in their audio interconnects. Not a single human on earth can hear the difference in copper purity, no matter what an audiophile magazine will tell you.
The true answer here is obvious. You’ll have to sign up for a computer to brain interface as soon as possible so you can negate the latency of your eyes processing the incoming photons

Lag matters if you’re syncing to sound or doing feedback, and comparing trying to iron out multiple frames worth of lag to copper purity purist audiophile madness makes little sense.

For those trying to sync up their patch to an audio source like a synth that uses pitch and gate CVs, one way to cut lag is to mult the pitch and gate CVs (filter cutoff CV very relevant too), and scale those voltages into whatever part of one’s patch that they care to modulate. This cuts out the “audio synth lag”, so that your video synth and audio synth are firing at the same time.

Btw, Really excited about the Chromagnon! I was looking at the front panel last night . What did I Preorder!?! Can’t wait to run some feedback through it!

Did this video drop? I’ve been off and on in terms of searching. My apologies if the answer is blatant, I’m late to the party…

The production schedule suggests “not yet”. Note that FKG3 was in there until very recently, but now its shipping. Also note the warning highlighted in yellow.

…thats a new “yellow”, I’m ready for it. Keep up the good work folks. The synergy isn’t just locally generated - we got you

I’ve been paying attention to LZX since the first generation, but I needed a size of 16: 9 instead of 4: 3 because the purpose is to capture it on Mac and make my music video.

So I gave up on it and 10 years have passed. And recently, I heard that LZX supports 1080p output, and I’m considering introducing Cromagnon.

Please let me ask some questions related to that.

These are very rudimentary contents, so these were likely answered in the forum already,But I couldn’t find it. I’m sorry if there are duplicates.

Q1:
Why does LZX not introduce modern resolutions such as 4K, 6K, 8k, but introduce legacy resolutions of 1080p?
Due to my lack of knowledge, I expected that Cromagnon would be equipped with an HDMI output port and could output resolutions up to 8K.
Is it a technical issue that LZX does not introduce today’s resolutions? Or is it a ideological issue?

Q2:
I was wondering if there are many 16: 9 size videos made by pre-HD system on LZX’s Youtube channel etc. Are those online videos capturing the 4:3 SD output from LZX on a computer etc. and then forcibly stretching it sideways?

Q3:
I’m interested in the Orion series, especially the fortress, in addition to Cromagnon, but will the Orion series continue to be produced in the future?
Also, I’ve seen vague information about whether the Orion series supports HD. Is it possible to input the video output from the Orion series to Cromagnon and then capture it on a Mac in HD?

Excuse me for the beginner’s question.

Aspect ratio is a feature of the display device. Once you get the video into a computer, you can use whatever aspect ratio you like.

Some video players, like VLC, will let you override the ratio set in the file. The default settings on all the “smart” TV sets I’ve seen seems to be to use 16:9 regardless of the broadcast ratio. However, it may be possible to change this in a menu option.

Many videos created using LZX modules that I’ve seen use 4:3, but some of us prefer 16:9. I also like upscaling to HD and applying other post-production transformations. For example, I like cropping the image to get cleaner edges, then adding horizontal and vertical mirroring. As the starting point is SD video, I actually downscale to get HD. If I did this starting with HD video, then I’d get 4K without any scaling. Adding another level of mirroring would give 8K. However, I don’t yet have a 4K monitor, so I don’t bother. HD is good enough for me.

Everyone has their own post-production style. That’s why so many of us use a video editor or something similar.

As for LZX hardware resolution, I think that may be a technology issue. Eurorack PSUs in the past struggled to provide enough power for SD modules, nevermind HD. Gen3 solves this by supporting 12V dc supplies.

However, I think HD is the maximal possible resolution. That’s a limitation of component video. To go higher, you need to go digital.

ffmpeg -i pc.mp4 -s 1440x1080 pcO.mp4

ffmpeg -i pcO.mp4 -vf "scale=-1:1080:flags=lanczos,setsar=1,pad=1920:1080:(ow-iw)/2:(oh-ih)/2" pcU.mp4

I use these two ffmpeg commands to go from 640x480 > 1440x1080 then pad to 1920x1080

If the source absolutely has to stay in 4:3 this is the easiest way for me currently

in my system I use an extron 300a to go from component output to HDMI and it also upscales however I want. The video is also going through a v440 before that so it can be upscaled most ways there too.

you can do it with hardware like mixers or upscalers in real time or you can do it via software in post production

there are no LZX modules with a HDMI output

the closest is the DVI out on the memory palace

as far as 4k etc that would be a post processing thing for sure with the current system
using something like topaz AI I would imagine

displaying live video content in 16:9 is totally doable and has been since before this new 1080 era! we are just going to have a lot more clarity at our disposal now if that is the artistic goal.

16:9 and 4:3 are just ratios and not resolutions. I almost exclusively feed my LZX system 16:9 footage, process it in 4:3, but recapture in 16:9. You can look at some samples of said process here: a_digital_index on Vimeo

Thank you for advice.

So that’s it. Since I usually make handwritten animations, I rarely changed the aspect ratio in post production.

For example, if I want to create a perfect circular image with LZX and finish it in a 4k digital movie without changing the aspect ratio, first divide the output of LZX into two and monitor one with a 16: 9 aspect ratio to create a perfect circle. And I just have to make it and capture the other one to Mac etc. via an HDMI converter with 4k upscale function, right?

Upscaling from SD or HD to 4k may not be particularly beneficial as it just makes the file heavier

Thank you for the useful information about electricity too. I didn’t know that the power consumption of a video synth is higher than that of audio

@wednesdayayay
Thank you. It’s so beautiful. I can’t believe it’s an SD signal

@a_digital_index
Thank you for showing me great job! Well, these works have 16:9 ratio, but the resolution is SD, isn’t it? Is the final codec h.264? And what is the frame rate?

The file will certainly be larger after upscaling, but that’s a feature of the final resolution rather than the scaling itself. Pixel format and frame rate will also be issues.

I can’t find the post but there was some discussion around HD in the LZX environment, which is primarily analogue don’t forget, it was mentioned that the bandwidth required to synthesise 4K would make for some obscenely expensive hardware…

I use an UDC to convert everything to 1080. That is what you saw. I’ve tried upscaling to 4K and it didn’t really result in a better image; just larger. To a certain degree, your image will only ever be as good as your lowest resolution in your signal flow and with Expedition series as sync that is going to be 480 (SD).

Most of these are captured in 29.97 and the codec is Pro Res which I then turn into .264 for web delivery.

Thank you again. It was very helpful.

Capturing with 29.97 ProRes and rendering with h.264 after post-production seems to me to be the best way for current webcasting.

And It’s very interesting to see what the image quality will look like when capturing LZX’s new HD video output.

I’ve never seen a 4k or 8k analogue signal. Outside of VGA, I’m not aware that there are any standard analogue signal resolutions that went much higher resolution than 1080. VGA could get to just over 2k.

A big strength of the LZX approach is that it is an analogue process, so when you patch things together, they pretty much happen instantly. Adding extra modules into the chain doesn’t add frames of latency (except for the Memory Palace but that’s kind of its job).

Digital video (HDMI etc) doesn’t transmit a constant stream of pixels in the way that analogue video does (okay, continuous voltage). It groups chunks of information and compresses it in places. This means that a digital modular system would have to wait until it has received a whole frame of information before processing it. This would add latency. Every module would need enough memory to store the full 8k frame. This would increase complexity and cost.

Computer software is most efficient for this type of workflow.

Thank you for the easy-to-understand advice even for me who has little knowledge of video. I don’t feel like making video with software for some reason. After all I want to use LZX. Because it looks very fun.

there are so many good software interfaces that are free

cables.gl
hydra
touchesigner
lumen

all are either free or have a useable “demo”

I get that you want to use hardware but being able to prototype in software is very helpful.

for instance my system is down entirely right now but I’m still keeping my patching practice up through touchdesigner. I just built a video synth idea that has been floating around in my head for ~3 years. The system it would take in order to build this patch would be giant and cost an insane amount of money.

getting to understand some of the core concepts of synthesis through hydra would be a great way to get your toes wet. Understanding more of the how’s and why’s of video synthesis is something a lot of people tend to step over because they get distracted by the shiny things. I know this because I was also one of those people.

I am by no means telling you to NOT buy hardware in fact I think working in TD is making my hardware choices harder. I have a much clearer idea of what I’m trying to achieve but also now I know how to achieve that look through practice. Before I’d just buy a module with the hope it would do what I wanted it to and that didn’t always work out.

I would also recommend a book that really goes in on the basics of digital compositing depending on your level of proficiency there as understanding some of those compositing concepts will also be hugely helpful in moving forward in video synthesis.

I 1000% agree with the book recommendation! Chapter 3 is probably the best manual for the Memory Palace that I have come across.

Thank you. Great information! I researched lumen before, but it didn’t look very interesting. I don’t really like to work with software even if in the field of audio, and I’m the type of person who enjoys working with hardware equipment, not to mention Eurorack.

However, I was interested in cables.gl and hydra. I don’t hate MAX that much and I’m interested in live coding. The touche signer looks like a mystery. It may be the type of software I have never seen before.

In any case, the cost issue is big. I think Cromagnon has unprecedented cost performance when introducing LZX, and HD support is really attractive, but even so, the total cost of shipping and tariffs is close to 1400 USD, which is a fairly high hurdle for me. Before that decision I will try cables.gl and hydra.

Does anyone know what Q3 means on the production schedule?

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3rd quarter - so somewhere around july/august/september best estimate at moment…

Q3 Calendar or Fiscal Year? They are different. Since FY22 Q3 is over that could mean FY23 Q3. As opposed to Calendar 2022 Q3.

It’s the calendar year. But it’s only the best guess at the moment. Impossible to know for sure with the supply chain disruptions.

So when this inevitably gets pushed back to 2023 will you then begin offering refunds?

Suggesting a delay to 2023 is being a bit presumptuous, but I understand why you would say that. The world has made small scale electronics manufacturing very difficult.

LZX does not offer refunds on pre-orders, but exchange credit is always available.

Why would I want exchange credit from a company I have lost trust in?

If you wanted currently available, in-stock modules over funding a preorder that’s been (and is still being) hit by pandemic manufacturing and component delays.

If you ordered from a third-party seller then it should be just as easy to cancel your order. But if you ordered Direct from LZX then not the same. Sometimes you have to choose risk/reward where to pre-order from i.e. “do I wait for a vendor to receive? what if they don’t get any stock?” or do I “secure my order directly with LZX and wait?”. I’ve done both. I feel Chromagnon is just around the corner!! Pre-ordered mine in January 2021 from a vendor. I really want TBC2 + Expander first though, pre-ordered them from LZX in August 2020!

Just got to hang on folks!! This should be the year LZX catches up!! In the mean time…more LZX Expedition black panels please

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Sharing this just to paint a picture of the current shipping backlog.

In my workplace’s Global S&OP the Logistics team love sharing many slides worth of images like that - long term sourcing delays have been a hot topic for 6 months now

I’ve been seeing stories like this for over a year: Semiconductor firms: China lockdowns play havoc with supply and demand. The car industry was slow to restart last year because of similar issues. Here’s just one story: Volkswagen: Expect chip supply problems until 2024. One last story: Semiconductor sales forecast to hit $676b in 2022. Key quote: “With the current ongoing situation in Europe… it is difficult to predict how it [chip supply] will pan out; there are potential disruptions.”

Yeah, fabrication of components in industrial towns having been intermittently shutting down with outbreaks even still

When the first shutdowns occurred, everyone canceled their orders due to lack of demand, with basically only Apple still continuing to slurp down remaining stock, months to years of spotty availability and large vendors are Hamsterkaufing many years of future production to avoid any long future outages and screwing mid-tier producers and absolutely fucking small/boutique industry for basic chips and controllers, perhaps there’s some way for LZX to keep in better contact with updates (though the spreadsheet seems ok, if updated regularly) but at whatever Digikey/Mouser end there are either broad and inaccurate estimates or NO estimates for when many of these parts on order will come back in stock after all the largest manuf orders have been fulfilled.

Ok, back to synthesis concepts…

I’m curious how well the output of a NeonCaptain Radiator’s ILDA output would take to the Chromag’s ILDA input for additional processing, either back to ILDA out or as an input source for analog video modulation.

pretty sure there are likely folks out there wiling to buy out your pre-order if you ask - it’s happened plenty of times before in the Discord and possibly elsewhere on the forum here. if your pre-order was before the price increase i’d gladly buy it out for the price you paid

Does anyone know if Chromagnon started to ship to Canada yet?
Just curios if we all are still waiting or just me…

Hey @b4_H, there was some clear info in the latest newsletter and it includes a link to a excel sheet regarding production progress.

https://mailchi.mp/lzxindustries/lzx-end-of-year-update

The new journal section of the LZX site will feature regular posts about Chromagnon, including synthesis concepts. The inaugural post is a general update on the project, but features some cool simulations.

I enjoy this journal format.

Sucks that Chromagnon has probably become that giant millstone around all your necks. I couldn’t personally imagine the pressure.

Still cheering you on from the virtual sideline. When it comes out it will be the best of presents/parties.

In case you missed it…Chromagnon output videos!

Chromagnon manual controls in NTSC. There are a few visual artifacts and gain levels to resolve in the signal path (software related), but this is a decent first look at the range of the shape generation controls without any modulation (internal or external) applied. All the image generation here is the analog portion of the instrument (digital system is just generated ramps and managing the user interface.) Video footage is sped up 300%.
All attenuverters at null.
Modulation Vectors #1 thru #5: Disabled
Ramp Shapers: Off
Fold: Enabled
XY Mode: HV
Luma Mode: Key
Chroma Mode: XY
Compositor Mode: Additive (first part of video), Source In (last few seconds of video)
Controls adjusted: X, Y, Edge, Size, Skew, Curve

Using DWO3 oscillators and DSG3 shape generators as modulation and texture inputs to Chromagnon.

do you all have a laser to show any of the Chromagnon > laser functionality? or better yet radiator > Chromagnon > laser if that is how those items would most reasonably be set up.
I’m really thinking about picking up the radiator/laser combo.

Yes! There is a laser in the lab, and we look forward to beaming some demos when the time is right.

I’ve encountered problem #2 a few times. The last time it happened, I took the SD card out, loaded in Windows, enabled ‘Show Hidden Files’ and noticed that a .DS_Store file made it’s way over because I was copying a folder over my home network from my Mac. I removed this file and it booted fine.

Perhaps the LZX team can add some code to ignore these hidden files in a future firmware update

Thanks for the contribution @bsarps , I added it into the solution list on the main post!

We’ve got some “ignore Mac crap” code in there already, but apparently it is still causing some issues. I’ll see if we can get to the bottom of it! Thank you.

Re problem #2 - I always use a program to delete hidden Mac files before loading - best results for me are with the nagware ‘Clean My Drive 2’ on OSX.

Hi, I just received mine, I want to report a strange issue : plugged to power board, double check everything, and … nothing, no screen, no white led light on back pannel… I began to turn white as a sheet. tripple check every thing (other modules worked well). After some breathes I try to “choke” it with 12vdc optionnal plug : fan run, white led, and full boot…
I also clean sd card.
Then I unplugged my external power supply, and restart my case PSU… now everything’s well… Lars, do you know what’s happened…?

Im unable to change the NTSC/PAL mode when using my Memory Palace as master.

When it boots, its by default in NTSC and the menu to change that is disabled, is there a special button combination to change the value to PAL? I have rev18.

We’re having some trouble with Memory Palace that we can’t fix. It displayed all the characteristics listed below initially, and continues to display them after an SD card reformat and copy over of current, default firmware with no amendments. The module has approximately 40 hours used time. It’s been largely stable other than some horizontal artifacts in certain warp-mode based patches.

Today, on initial startup, Memory Palace no longer responds to slider input. The values for the sliders shown in the display are capped at maximum despite slider position. The device outputs a signal that looks full white on Liquid TV and Visual Cortex, and full black from the Memory Palace’s previously functioning Composite2 Output. Neither output responds to slider motion or key presses.

Menu pages can be navigated and settings changed, but the output and slider value/responsiveness remains the same.

We’ve tried numerous sync cables and configurations (external/internal). We’ve tried multiple composite video and TS patch cables that work with other equipment.

The user manual is here, @7pip and the rest of the community are welcome to edit and build upon what is there:

@luix It sounds like you have Memory Palace in external sync mode. You can only select the NTSC/PAL format in internal sync mode. In external sync mode, Memory Palace will detect the sync format from the external source (patched to sync input on the rear.)

@gaeljaton Not sure. Which model power supply are you currently using and what is the total current load on it?

To be clear: Memory Palace should not be stalling, crashing, or failing to boot. We’ve had our units here in the lab running mostly 24/7 for weeks without crashing. If you’re experiencing any kind of instability that’s not fixed (in a permanent way) by the tips suggested in the OP, please e-mail support@lzxindustries.net to request an RMA.

2A @12v
2A @-12v
(4A @ 5v)

I think it’s enough. I guess it was some kind of varnish on ext power plug which doesn’t allowed 12v bypass, plugging connector should have cleaned the contact.
As mentionned, now it boot well and all effects seem’s to work as desired.
I just remain an issue on DVI-D out, sometime it stop working after few minutes and back again when just reboot (without touching cable). And the dvi - hdmi converter provided just don’t work (I got an other one which work - at least few minutes)

Exactly, what Im saying is that when I put the sync switch on INTERNAL, I cannot select PAL on the menu its still disabled (grey) regarless of the switch. I’ll wait for the v19 and see if that fixes the problem.

The auto detection (when external is activated) is not working well, and neither the switch internal/external. I want to be able to select PAL/NTSC manual anyway always if is possible.

@luix What is your sync source that it’s having trouble detecting as NTSC or PAL? Is this with Visual Cortex? We had one report so far where the switch was actually broken, does it look damaged at all?

My sync source is Visual Cortex with decode switch off (to use internal sync of VC). MY VC boots nicely every single time in PAL, Im syncing it using the SyncOut of VC into the SyncIn of the MP with the terminate ON.

Switch and soldering looks good. I’ll just wait for v19 and see what happens, thanks Lars.

Having issues getting hdmi out working. Tried both an intensity extreme and ultrastudio 4K. Any specific setttings i need to get it to register?

I haven’t tried with either of those devices, but anything with 480p/576p support should be working. Have you tried on a display yet? If you have another adapter or cable to try, it’s good to rule those out as potential problems as well. If all fails, get with us to arrange an RMA.

all my system draw :
1.1A @+12V
0.5A @-12V
and 0.15A @+5V
I’ll investigate with bad solders and try to re-upload firmware…

I did a gig last night, everything worked well for several hours. I choose to believe it was a kind of break-in phase. a time to know each other in a sens… (or damned varnish again…?)

I have the same problem, can’t switch from NTSC to PAL in internal sync mode. Format is greyed out/disabled and can’t be selected.

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Running in external sync mode, MP doesn’t seem to want to switch to PAL. I’ve tried with a Vidiot in both NTSC and PAL. Vidiot colorizer out to MP sync in works for NTSC only.
If I run the Vidiot in PAL, the MP seems to stay in NTSC and the MP’s output image displays black and white scrolling typical of format mismatch.

if I wait like 3 minutes for the MP to “warm”, and then reboot it (by turning off-on my case) maybe 3-5 times I get it to work on PAL with external sync.

do you have the same behaviour to fix it?

I’m sure I can get the NTSC/PAL issue fixed on the next version. I had to set down progress on Memory Palace’s next firmware update in order to catch up around the shop and make some headway on the other Orion preorder releases – but progress has been great and I plan to have V19 out in April. Lots of cool stuff coming!!!

image.jpg4048×3036 1.2 MB

Awesome! looking forward to giving it a go

graphic patch bay? that’s sound great! I hope for delay able to put before argb, I mean delayed the dry signal, for camera feedback purpose… (and just from dreaming, triple delay on each R/G/B channel for time glicht experience : https://vimeo.com/59434848 )

This may have been mentioned elsewhere, but when running into a crash bug, resetting the MP firmware also reboots the unit (if you’d rather not reboot your whole euorack case).

@DesertMuseum Cycle the power after connecting a new source to Visual Cortex is always a good idea.
External sources into Visual Cortex are meant to be coming from a stable and consistent timebase, and Memory Palace is expecting to boot up to an already stabilized sync source. When you patch a new source into Cortex, it changes its timing to Genlock. I’m sure I can make Memory Palace more capable of reinitializing itself on a sync change later on, but this shouldn’t be considered a functional issue for now. TBC2 won’t exhibit the same behavior, as it’s a TBC/synchronizer (what you want if you’re going to be live swapping input sources anyway.)

Good to know. That being said, I was hoping to run the output of a switcher into Cortex’s input decoder, I am guessing this will not be possible while keeping stable sync through the system, if I was to be switching between sources via switcher?

Using a switcher/mixer with TBCs like the Roland V8EX, etc should not be a problem. Switching between asynchronous sources (like with an Extron matrix switcher or video selection punch box) for your system master sync will reset the timing of the entire system every time you select a new source.

I was hoping to make use of Cortex’s input decoder but will it only hold stable sync with a continuous playback?

The timing of Cortex locks to whatever is fed into the genlock input (either frontpanel Y/Luma jack or rear sync input.) If you change the source to a source with different (asynchronous) timing, the timing of the entire system will change as a result to match the new source. This is causing Memory Palace to lock up because it’s not expecting the system master sync to change timing after it boots up and locks on.

Using a switcher with TBC/frame synchronizer on Visual Cortex inputs so that you’re always feeding your system a stable sync source will solve your issue, as would the TBC2 module.

I’ll see if we can make Memory Palace more resistant to dropouts/abrupt changes in sync in a future update.

What are you displaying/capturing on? Does it support 525p60/480p60?

I was going to post this about the reset… but you beat me to it…

Just want to add some insight here. My MP definitely would freeze after being left on for a while. Buttons would not respond. Would not pass signal. I’m running the same system of VC providing sync to the MP and changing source feeding the VC often.

For me the issue ended up being power related.
I tried it in a couple of rack configurations that were conforming to the 10Ma per HP standard with a Tip Top Zeus studio bus. Lars recommended this: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTYCRHV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Since installing it I’ve had my MP on for three days straight and no freezing. For $13 it is definitely worth getting if you are troubleshooting the MP. (Now I just need to find a right-angle adaptor for it.)

Has anyone been able to capture from Memory Palace’s DVI/HDMI output into a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle’s HDMI input? I’m able to capture the MemPal’s S-Video out, but not the HDMI output for some reason. Tried every input setting on the Shuttle with no luck.

I captured some MP footage wIth my Blackmagic USB so should work for you.

Thanks for the tips, guys — still no luck. @DesertMuseum The Shuttle actually only gives me 525i/p options, no 480 — wondering if this has something to do with it.

Also, a very strange bug: I get a black-and-white image out of MP for like 5 minutes, before it eventually transitions to color.

525 is 480. 480 is visual space and the remaining ‘45’ is essentially NTSC Timecode.

Just got mine (yippiiiiiii)
I can’t make it work in PAL though.
If internal, the option to change is greyed out.
If external, it would just ignore the input and still run in NTSC.
Is version 19 available somewhere or any other small trick I’m missing?

Not available yet! But I guess soon will be released.

What works for me is to leave it like 3 minutes on, and the reboot the modular until it locks on PAL.

I was trying that yesterday without success, I’ll try tonight again.
Mixed feelings experience to see how great it is but not being able to enjoy it…

Still no luck here
Anyone knows of a NTSC to PAL converter while waiting for a new firmware version?

New video from LZX and Johnny Woods up on the LZX YouTube channel!
How to load still images in the Memory Palace.

I also have the problem with PAL. I can do what I want: I never get PAL. I can switch to internal, I can directly connect the RCA cable to VC (in PAL mode). MP is always in NTSC mode.

When we can get the firmware update?

I’m trying to export some stills for MP processing. My goal with the bee image is to get it into MP as it appears in Photoshop with no background layer, not unlike the bee image that’s included in the nature folder of the pack-in MP stills, even though that’s a JPG. In Photoshop, I only have this one layer, as you can see on the right, which appears to contain the bee and nothing else. However, when I load it into my MP, it appears on my TV mostly as it appears on the MP’s display when the sliders are at 0 (notice the reddish artifacts in the bg and the white artifacts near the bottom). I have also tried to export as a JPG which gives me slightly better results when keying, but the width and/or center sliders have to stay below the middle, or else the background will reappear if the sliders are in any position above 50%. Any PNG/JPG optimization tips so that I can utilize the full range of the sliders?

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Edit: Here’s a still of what actually displays on my TV, still a little different from either of the other iterations. The crooked frame is just due to me not quite being zeroed out.

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Edit 2: It appears if I set the KEY mode to Alpha, the center and width sliders active regions swap to the top 50%.

Got a tip by Luix. By enabling the usb mode without any cable connected and then disabling it again I manage to sync to my Pal system.
Hope it helps

This is addressed at 10:16 in the recent tutorial video:

So if I were to make a mask that was the exact outline of the bee and set my MP to alpha key mode, I would get a clean, background-free image with zeroed out sliders? I will try that tonight and post a result here!

Thank you very much!
I get PAL

… but when I switch the MP on he starts with NTSC again

Here’s a hotfix for Memory Palace firmware V18, which should resolve the issues with MacOS filesystem and NTSC/PAL select (internal sync mode.) https://github.com/lzxindustries/firmware/raw/master/memorypalace/memorypalace_2019-07-03_18-release-hotfix.zip

Will the MPs that ship in August already have this firmware installed?

This one or the upcoming firmware with expanded features.

Hello I´ve updated MP to firmware v18 but it doesn´t switch automatically to Pal sync
Any idea?

The update don‘t fix the problem with PAL.

Did you update with the BIN file located in the “memorypalace_2019-07-03_18-release-hotfix.zip” package?

Yes but I wondered that it is much smaller than the one that was still loaded

Yes, the hotfix update doesnt fix the PAL sync for my either.
The work around from LUIX gets it to sync:
“What works for me is to leave it like 3 minutes on, and the reboot the modular until it locks on PAL.”
Takes me 3-4 cycles.

I hope the next firmware version can make it a little easier.

Morning,
to make it sync to PAL you also can go to ENABLE USB PROZESS and push the red button twice.

This tip is known (see VanTa). But is not comfortable to push 4x the button to get PAL every time I start the system.

I’ll look more into this this week. I should probably give the hotfix a new version number so that you can see from the menu screen whether or not it has successfully updated to the new version. If you boot directly from SD card (hold SD Boot button on rear) do you experience different behavior?

I have been held up by work on TBC2, Fortress and Diver since Memory Palace’s release and apologize there hasn’t been more action with firmware updates. That’s about to change on the other side of these projects (which have been prioritized since we have a huge number of pending preorders waiting on them.) Thanks everyone for your patience.

I’ve rebuilt the hotfix and verified that it works correctly through firmware update. I’m not sure if there was an issue with the previous upload, but this one is definitely good to go!

https://github.com/lzxindustries/firmware/raw/master/memorypalace/memorypalace_2019-08-02_18-release-hotfix.zip

Sorry, but I had to fix the title. It was driving me a little crazy.

I’ve installed the version 18 firmware / hotfix and still have the locked on NTSC issue (format option greyed out and not accessible), but I can confirm Bhut’s method of enabling USB Access then disabling it switches it to PAL. The format option remains greyed out, but this works.

Getting goosebumps here, nearly there

If I want to run VC into MP and output from MP as “final stage,” what’s the best way to get both channels of VC output into MP? I figured running component out of VC’s outputs back into its input decoder, and then routing the input decoder’s 3.5mm RGB into MP would do the trick…but when I do this the output is monochrome. I feel like there must be something obvious I’m missing. :-/

You’ll need a composite to component convertor for that, as the cortex only has component input.
Ideally you could use one of the Cortex Output Expanders folks are offering to do it.

this works great with the output expander mentioned above otherwise I’m not sure that you will get it to happen

The weird thing is that I do get a B+W image when sending VC’s component output back into its component input. If only it was color, problem solved!

And I’m a little wary of operating on my Visual Cortex. I’m not even a licensed optometrist

I feel you on that! I had a couple issues with my visual cortex that I was sending it in for anyway and LZX HQ did the modification for me

does anyone get jittering with the memory palace?
I seem to be getting a lot of shaking and jittering when things like mirroring and tile are on
am I missing something?

i get this sort of artifact frequently! often time it goes away after power cycling!

I get this somewhat frequently as well and have to power cycle to get rid of it.

Are any of y’all getting jittering using the auxiliary barrel power?

Yes, I’m on barrel power and get this sometimes. Sometimes also just what looks like complete loss of sync, like the image drops out for a moment. I would agree that the jitter seems more common when mirror is engaged. My sync chain is VC -> Diver -> MP -> Prismatic Ray, in a Vessel case. Latest MP firmware (2.0.1). I’m taking output from MP’s first composite out straight into a consumer CRT.

I can try powering through the barrel if that is preferable but I’m currently just using the built in power from a vessel case

I went in to the studio to drop a couple things off and tried the power cycling out and sometimes it would seems stable at first and then start jittering about 30 seconds in or after I start messing with controls on the MP.

my sync is going from (internal sync) visual cortex > escher sketch > memory palace > side of vessel case > structure (terminated)

I’m also on the newest firmware and am taking a composite output from memory palace and a RGB feed through the visual cortex on composite and component

I have the jittering also mostly noticeable in patches there you are using video coming into VC and then going into MP for keying and feedback…It it more and more noticeable the closer the zoom function is centered for a slow feedback zoom out. I have tried both barrel and pro power and doesn’t seam to affect it.

yes power is coming from the auxiliary barrel in combination with the new lzx power source

I have two Memory Palaces and jitter is a persistent problem on both. I’ve tested isolated case power with supplement 12V adapter and results were the same. I have found that mirror and tile mode makes the jitter worse but it’s there on all modes when using images. I have to do some more tests with rgba input, but I think it’s there too. I’ve just been working with it. But seems like a firmware bug to be squashed to me. When I first got one I was convinced some of my sliders were faulty, in particular the rotation function seems to jitter the most. I can’t keep a straight line on the bottom on an image. X and Y or the mesh maybe also slightly jittering, but it doesn’t seem to be sliders since it happens on both of mine. I never used v18 but was it more stable for folks that have the jitter and experience with v18?

feeling much better about this now as I thought I was alone!

I don’t remember it on v18 but I was also so thrilled to be doing things like this that I wasn’t paying attention

looking back at that video in particular I see no shaking however it is paint mode rather than warp mode.

alright so a couple more issues

1. when using the freeze button each time you press it on the MP a new “freeze” is taken.
   If you use the gate input selector to choose freeze and then send a signal to that input it only freezes once and then you have to clear before the next “freeze” can happen. I used the escher sketch to test this.

2. I’m getting some kind of noise only coming from MP outputs (both the composite and svideo). It is in a vessel case with a visual cortex which doesn’t see the same noise on its outputs.

here is a short video showing the issue

I don’t have any feedback going on in my LZX patching (some in the video mixer) but even with that off it still shows up.

it is kind of difficult to see it here but if you look at the big areas of color you see lots of small horizontal lines running all along the screen.

I’ll have to get a picture with a camera I think to best illustrate the noise. I will also try un patching the memory palace (just using a built in still with some CV going to several inputs) to see if it persists.

I’m going to try powering it from the AUX power on the vessel maybe that will help.

Hi friends,

I am posting today to see if any other V19 users have had trouble using the orange button to enter the AUX settings in the slider submenu. When I enter this menu, it briefly displays the activity of the AUX input, but I cannot leave the menu without powercycling.

That’s an odd issue. I’m not having the issue using V2.0.1. You could try resetting defaults and then upgrading to the new BETA if resetting doesn’t work.

I too have that aux menu freezing issue

Which firmware are you using?

I am using the v.19 firmware. Have not tried out the new beta yet

The beta should solve the AUX freeze issue.

Can some patch notes be added about the beta firmware? Curious what other fixes/changes it contains. Thank you.

Would also be interested in your opinion on whether or not it’s as stable as V19 for gigging!

It’s just an update for V19 that fixes a number of the bugs. I find it more stable in general.

Probably a low priority bug, but in V2.0.1 if the orange button is pressed while in the AUX submenu the menu seems to freeze.

I have not experienced that in V2.0.1

When utilizing the media loader in warp mode, manipulating the spatial processor seems to introduce significant artifacts. These artifacts don’t seem to be limited to just tiling and rotating, but also appear intermittently during zooming. Following the update, the spatial processor sliders are markedly less responsive to physical inputs. Are there any adjustments that could help this?

Here is a video of the AUX submenu. I tested the same way on both devices.

[In my configuration, Visual Cortex is sending sync to the Memory Palace in the top row of the Vessel, and that Memory Palace is sending sync to the second. Both are powered from the auxiliary port on the back of the device.]

Thank you for confirming the AUX menu bug. I will make sure that isn’t an issue in the upcoming firmware (in which the frame artifact glitch has already been solved).

At the 1:00 timestamp, the zoom on screen doesn’t correlate with the slider movement. Is this related to the frame artifact glitch?

You might want to check the settings for the Zoom slider. Slew and S-curve can be adjusted to your preference.

I encountered this today. Going into Aux submenu locked up MemPal. I recreated it on another MemPal so seems to be a bug.

Does anyone else experience a flicker-ish artifact when using the DVI output from Memory Palace? When I switch to the composite output it goes away.

The DVI output experience will be improved in the next firmware.

I am using v2.0.1. When using the USB SD Card Memory access on Mac, does anyone else find that the their computer will not recognize the Memory Palace drive for a variety of time ranging from a minute to many minutes?

30 seconds to 1:30 on my end but usually closer to 30. Beats pulling it out of the rack and popping the SD card out.

I’m using V19 and a Macbook Pro
I can’t gain access to the SD card through the front port, have I missed something?

I’ve given it at least 5 minutes, still no luck

Some Mac users have no luck connecting to USB. In which case you’ll have to remove the MicroSD and use a card reader. The next firmware should make USB connection easier for Macs.

Did you select USB connection in the System menu after you plugged it in? It is the first option. After you disconnect, restart the module in the system menu to see the changes you made.

If I select the ‘USB Storage’ option in the System menu, it offers me ‘internal’ or ‘SD’ ?

Can I also ask:

i) In the LZX Sensory Translator Patch Tutorial, the trigger is set to multiple booleans/push buttons at once. How is this achieved, please? The trigger menu lets me select one but I can’t see how to select more than that

ii) There’s an option in the System Menu for ‘MIDI Seq’, what does is this for? I’ve searched the forum but can’t seem to pull anything up.

Once you choose an option in the USB storage menu, Memory Palace will connect to your computer.
Memory Palace has a single trigger input; the trigger menu allows you to assign that input to any single button.
Details on the MIDI capabilities of Memory Palace can be found in the user guide:

Thanks for your reply

So what happens in the patch tutorial video (linked below at the correct timing) is not possible with current firmware?

Current firmware only allows the incoming trigger to be assigned to a single button function.

From the video, the single trigger input activates multiple boolean parameters at once. It is technically a gate, in that those parameters are only activated for the period of time that the Sensory Translator’s envelope generator is above the voltage threshold set in the Memory Palace. This is why the slower envelope produces a more significant effect.

The upcoming V20 firmware will allow the trigger to be assigned to multiple destinations simultaneously.

Cool! Just checking I hadn’t missed a trick

Was that a beta version in the video that allowed for multiple parameters to be triggered?

No, it was just an earlier firmware.

Got it. Thank you for the clarification.

HI!
Reading all this thread, I’m a bit scary.
I have 2018 early MP and I never update firmware (still V18 I guess).
Should I wait for V20?
And if I try and not satisfied with beta or V19, can I turn back to previous firmware without damage?
Last thing, I’m an ubuntu user, is anybody get problem with it and should I try to format SD card before push new firmware?
Thank’s

If you’re happy with V18, you can keep using it, or wait until V20. Once you upgrade, it is better not to go backwards.
Reformatting the MicroSD can help, if you run into any problems in the update process.

@Z0NK0UT As many users, I get strange behaviors : sometime it won’t boot, need some power recycling, DVI not always work and lose during session, sometime PAL is not detect, some artifacts/glitches… but I think I gonna wait for strong firmware revision, and continue to smash power button at start ; Still a wonderful module, no pain no gain!

Has anyone replaced the fan in their MemPal with a quieter one?

Yup https://www.digikey.com/en/engineering/products/eurorack_modules/visionary_series/detail/255M/381-2353-ND/2403040

It’s 2mm deeper than the stock fan.

Oh nice, thanks @rempesm. Is it much quieter?

I haven’t measured it but to my ears, yes it is a significant improvement.

To add some objectivity, checking out the datasheets below may help. Should probably also mention that this likely voids your warranty on your Memory Palace so proceed with caution.

Stock fan

Fan I used

tried to update my mempal from v19 to the v2.0.1. beta. had to do it via the sd card. getting this error in the menu while booting. menu is staying like this.

20210329_1622132268×4032 1.56 MB

Looks like an issue with the card. You might try re-seating it.

thats it! yap i formatet it. but looks like the card which came with the mempal broke. used another card and it works fine! case closed!

I had to replace the SD card on mine as well once. Worked fine after that.

Next problem with v2.0.1 :
Can anybody tell my the media loader ramps are all 16:9?

Aspect ratio is set to 4:3. Format Pal

The black bars are better visible with tile & reflect
(and the stuff which is tile & reflect is really jittery… but maybe thats also a betaversion problem)

Nobody had this problem?

I think I just got used to the black bars. I actually use them a lot as a compositional element. It helps breaking apart some patterns.

You are in berlin? Maybe a pal problem? Didn’t had this prob in v19.

No problem, aside from the fact that the images included with Memory Palace are sized for NTSC (720x486) and not PAL (720x576). You would have to resize the stills to make them fit a PAL frame.

Ok, good to know. Were the pal versions included in the v19 firmware? Absolutely sure they were shown full size.

The images included with V19 are the same ones in V2.0.1

Got a mp yesterday and i’ve noticed a major issue that hasn’t been discussed anywhere yet (which kind of surprises me) The cooling fan is loud! I had desktop computers that weren’t as loud as my mp unit.Not sure yet if i’m gonna keep it,but i urgently need more functions added to my liitle system and i’m still waiting (over a year now) for the chromagnon.

Search in this thread about a fan replacement. Not sure if it voids your warranty but I did it on mine and it’s significantly quieter.

I’m not very familiar with a soldering iron,so i guess that replacing the wire is gonna be a bit tricky,but i’ll have to give it a go regardless.I haven’t done much with the mp in this short period of time,but i can see some potential and useful functions here.

I disassembled mine and soldered pin headers in place of the original black/red fan wires so I can easily swap it out later. This can be very risky if you’re not used to electronics disassembly–there is a flat ribbon connector that can be easily ripped and render your Memory Palace an expensive paper weight.

The simplest way to go about it is to cut the black/red wires going to the fan with plenty of slack so that you can securely splice them together and heatshrink the exposed connections to avoid any shorts. You’ll also need some slightly longer screws as the fan linked above is 2mm deeper than the stock fan.

In the scope of possible soldering jobs, this is a relatively simple one–if it doesn’t feel like a comfortable task, I’d highly suggest asking a friend who might have a bit more experience. Again, just be aware this could void your warranty. I didn’t ask LZX before I modified mine but the fan noise was driving me nuts.

Being able to write to a frame buffer is unbelievably useful in a video synthesizer context and the vertex displacement mode makes liquid patches a snap. Not everything on the screen has to be generated in real time which is the usual ‘gotcha’ with analog video synths.

I wonder if LZX is planning to, or would consider, using a different stock fan for MPs built moving forward?

Between this forum and FB, fan noise does actually seem to be a fairly common complaint.

(…At very least, installing via a header, as Rempesm did, as stock — to make user upgrade slightly easier — could be a middle ground.)

I was thinking about cable splicing.Looks like that’s how i’m gonna do it.Just need to find a retailer in eu who has all the necessary parts.Thanks for all the useful info.

Short of replacing the fan, another thing to try is rack in a deeper case? Installing in a shallow case tends to accentuate the fan noise I discovered. I thought LZX was going to consider an option to adjust fan speed into a future firmware update.

I’m getting noise or small pixels from the video outputs of my mp on the left side of the screen .It seems to have pattern.

Untitled 01 10720×486 320 KB

Is that a defect or a feature?

That’s from the CVBS outputs? Have your tried the DVI-D?

Nope,would be a bit difficult to set up atm,but i’m getting it on the rgb outs and the rca jacks.I’m routing the rgb signal into a structure module,which feeds into my tv and a shuttle express.

I’ve recorded a couple of clips today.The noise is barely visible in one of them and not at all in two others.Still want to get rid of it if possible.

Do you see the noise only when running through Structure, or is it visible when monitoring from the TV and shuttle?

No,i also took video directly from memory palace and it’s still there.I see it on the tv and imac,where i record video.Looks like it’s definitely mp.Never had it before with structure,vidiot and my other lzx commands.

OK. The next step is to reinstall the firmware. If that does not solve the issue, send an email to support@lzxindustries.net

Alright,thanks.Gonna try it tomorrow and see how it goes.

Didn’t work,the noise is still there (sigh)

What PSU are you using?

I’m using a mantis case.Tried it with a 12v 1a psu for the auxilary power input yesterday but the noise was still there.

Does the Mantis case use TipTop Studio Buses? What power brick is feeding it?

Just curious if it might be power noise leaking in somewhere. I’ve powered my Memory Palace off a TipTop Studio Bus using the recommended 4.6A Cincon brick and some random no name 12V 5A supply for the auxiliary DC input on it. Haven’t seen that particular noise artifact on my setup on either composite, S-Video or DVI out.

Do you have a way to take a video capture of the noise so we can see how persistent it is or is it just showing up on random frames?

It has the standard psu (3a.) and buses.Hooking up a auxilary psu (12v 1a.) to mp didn’t help,so i guess it’s safe to say that it’s not an issue with the power supply or distribution.

Aside from mp,there are two passage mixers,a curtain,doorway,staircase,polar fringe,fortress and diver in the case.All of them are working fine,with or without being routed through mp.

The noise is persistent and yes i can record it.Is it possible to upload videos here? Never tried it so far.

Sadly not.
“Sorry, the file you are trying to upload is not authorized (authorized extensions: jpg, jpeg, png, gif, heic, heif, webp).”

@Z0NK0UT

Can the aux input be utilized as an alpha key source in conjunction with the media loader? I am using the most recent firmware, in warp mode, alpha keying, set to alpha on aux channel. I have swept combinations of the aux, width, and center sliders.

AUX is not currently a key source. Here are the AUX functions (as selected in the menu):

• AUX Mode . This option defines the function of the aux input channel, which includes the Aux CV input, slider, and MIDI CC value.
  • Alpha . The aux channel is summed with the alpha input, providing a secondary alpha input and opacity control
  • Mesh . Alpha + AUX are used to displace X+Y vertex mesh.
  • Mask . AUX controls vertex spatial resolution.

Quite frequently my memory palace output flickers, and then the key seems to change its horizontal offset. This happens most often in warp mode, with both rgb and media loader as the source. Initially I thought this glitch might be limited to alpha keying, but it occurs when luma keying as well.

Anyone else experiencing this? Hoping a firmware update might address the issue.

Hi, I’ve recently acquired a second-hand Memory Palace and am experiencing an intermitent issue where an image from the SD or external source will briefly glitch to a different location.
I’ve tried reinstalling the firmware, removed all external connection and set to internal sync but the issue persists.
I’d like to know if there’s any troubleshooting I should try for an easy fix or if I should return it immediately.
Here’s a quick video showing the problem:

That glitch was really common with V19. Which firmware are you using? Also, what is your sync setup?

I really should have read the thread I was commenting on, where all the symptoms were already addressed
I was on 19 and updated to the 2.0.1 beta this weekend and it feels like a brand new machine, the glitches are gone, the menus are way more responsive, folders load faster… There’s still a bit of jitter on images but it’s really night and day to what it was.
Thanks,

I have started noticing this glitch while luma keying as well.

[Component input decoded in VC, VC decoder > MP rgb inputs, MP rgb output > VC and out.]

yeah I sure hope that is a software fix

Thank you so much! I’m not sure how to properly use scene and ghost patches yet, please update their info when you can.

of course I would have to add 2 cables one 2x3 ribbon for the encoder output, and europower 2x5.

@pbalj maybe its a good idea for you 1u tiles

@luix did you end up building this? Has anyone else considered it? I might give it a shot this weekend (one set of outputs, without buffers, to start.)

For some reason, I thought the MP had a composite input, but I was sorely mistaken.

I’m not really a DIY guy, but I’d be willing to chip some $ in for the cause. This looks fairly simple though, so if it was a simple PCB, my shakey hands could probably solder it.

I have a composite to component adapter that has an RGB option, but I doubt it will work without some sort of attenuation to the 1v spec.

something like this? please correct any mistakes!
I’ve made 3 outputs now. Easy to double up if that is needed.
Maybe the buffers should be without resistors.? - pic2

(still a beginner)

afbeelding.png1920×1080 157 KB

or

afbeelding.png1920×1080 156 KB

Sorry for the super late response… I’ve been sick and bed the last week and couldn’t post anything.

The answering all of you, YES, I have a pcb design for this. Back in november I worked a bit on the breadboard and the crossed some conclussions with Lars on how to do this in the most interesting way.

The first approach was as @reverselandfill said just to use buffers, but Lars suggested to add attenuverters in the outputs to be able to invert the output signal of the cortex, also a LUMA OUT is super handy specially to patch in the alpha channel of the Memory Palace, here are some pics.

Here is the schematic, I’ll release the files on github once they are tested and working… It will be really bad if some VC die because of my fault

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Anyway, I’ll be building and testing these pcbs next week so expect some news soon!

On the second schematic you made, the R4, R10 and R14 are not needed. I made almost the same design and Lars said those resistors are not needed but the signals come from a known world (impedance, levels, etc…) the pins could go directly in the non-inverting inputs of the op-amps.

Yeah, I thought that already.
But good news with the progress. I’ll leave it to you then !
Where did the luma come from? is that a summed signal ?

Yes! Lars shared how to extract Lumma from RGB, using those magic weird value resistors.

aha magic. that was what I thought. I’ll check the schematic then

Fantastic news, thank you! I was just thinking that a luma output would be a great use for the fourth op amp channel.

RGB to Luma is very handy (and a cheap addition!) Someone should do YUV to RGB and RGB to YUV boards at some point. If you had UV, you could patch up a chroma keyer with some Castle logic and some C8s!

For reference

From RGB to YUV

Y = 0.299R + 0.587G + 0.114B
U = 0.492 (B-Y)
V = 0.877 (R-Y)

It can also be represented as:

Y = 0.299R + 0.587G + 0.114B
U = -0.147R - 0.289G + 0.436B
V = 0.615R - 0.515G - 0.100B

From YUV to RGB

R = Y + 1.140V
G = Y - 0.395U - 0.581V
B = Y + 2.032U

So I finally pulled some time to build and test this pcbs, and the mixer section works pretty well… The problem I’m seeing is with the Lumma. I need to do further testing of the circuit.

For some reason when I put a signal into R it pops in all the other channels, the same happens for G and B, but there are not short or overlapped traces anywhere so Im guessing Im not testing it right.

I added some fast diodes to prevent voltage return to the mixer section on the Lumma resistors but its not working… maybe I need to connect all the three channels.

01.jpg3000×4000 3.91 MB

02.jpg3000×4000 2.74 MB

Anyway just a heads up on this. The schematic is already posted on this thread.

I need one of these for use with memory palace!
On the pcb, though, the 100nf decoupling caps should be as close to the power pins of the ICs as possible.

you are correct sir, thanks.

I think you may need to buffer the RGB inputs before putting them thru attenuverters, etc Can you probe what you’re seeing at the input nodes on the scope?

Apparently the problem was that I was testing with only one channel (R or G or B) at any given time, and the rest of the pins were “flying”. So the Luma resistors “mixer” made the signal comback from the other chanels the one connected/testing. This is not an ideal way of testing since all the time the VC will be connected and either send 0v-01v on each channel preventing this bleed.

I’ll add buffers to the inputs of the lumma and the before the attenuverters. If I only add buffers to the Attenuverters I will still get bleed from the Luma resistors-mixers. If I only add buffers to the 3 Lumma inputs I could get attenuverted signal from the feedback of path of each attenuverter.

So far the solution I like the most is to connect hte Lumma to the outputs of thf buffers RGB, that way there is no way to get it wrong. The only problem is that Lumma can get “dirty” if any cables with dirty signals (stacked) are plugged into the outputs of the expander.

Updates!

So I’ve worked a bit during the weekend on the pcb, now I moved all the 104 caps near the power pins of the 6172 as suggested by @pbalj, also added buffers to everything… I wanted to make this board very cheap thats was why I tried to save on ICs, but it doesn’t make sense to save up money just for 2 more 6172.

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I’ll fab boards and panels and post back any news.

test.png166×1079 1.89 KB

When the time comes and everything is finished, I’ll publish the eagle and gerber files probably in my github so anyone can fab it, in any case I’ll have spares that can sell… but was wondering if anyone is interested in kits maybe I can put together maybe 10 or so. If not I’ll only sell the pcb+panel set for like 10€ or 15€ depending on the cost of the aluminium panel :). Let me know your interest with for either pcbsets or kits?

I’d be in for the most complete version possible (no DIY skills here)!
love this project

I’d like a pcb/panel set please!!!

@wednesdayayay - watch a couple of basic videos on how to solder and then check out diy synth guy on youtube!

get a really basic soldering iron and a cheap kit to practice with (mults or something) - it’s really quite easy - I learnt last september and have built 20 modules - including 5 cadet and 6 castle modules and 3 smd (2 ripples and a buffered mult) virtually everything worked first or second time - one of the ripples is not quite right - but otherwise all ok

I’m interested in the kit if possible, but a pcb+panel would be appreciated as well. Thanks!

count me in for a Kit if possible as well!

I would take a pre-built or kit.

I’d be down for a prebuilt module!

I’d take a PCB + panel too, love the mock up :]

I could do a built module won’t be difficult, but keep in mind that you will need to mod your Visual Cortex, which is solder a 2x3 pin header.

Its not difficult but you will need to do it your self (or find someone close to you)

Yeah I’d be down for a prebuilt, Sure I could figure out fitting the header.

Hey, could a little header kit be sold w the modules? That would make things so easy!

the full kit im planning will have pcb panel, pots, knobs, jacks, components (ics, resistors caps etc) a 3x2 header for cortex and a ribbon cable for the rgb expander header.

@creatorlars Im gonna do a second flavor of the expansion with YUV outs. Was wondering if I can use the Lumma circuit that you kindly show me as the Y

RGB-to-Luma.JPG1079×327 126 KB

or I must do another new lumma signal (I was going to go with voltage dividers of R G and B)
Y = 0.299R + 0.587G + 0.114B

My real question is if the Lumma of the YUV is different to the Luma schematic. Luma YUV vs Luma RGB (I would say no, but I’m in doubt.).

This lumma circuit is magix!

Great work on this @luix! I’m down for two kits. Curious as you’re planning a second breakout … could they easily be combined into one expander?

yeah should be easy to chain them.

@luix That circuit should work fine! For the U and V outputs you can follow a similar method. I generally use SPICE simulations to tweak circuits like this until output voltage readings are correct according to RGB input voltages. 5Spice has a free version we’ve used for years, although I’m using Tina more frequently now.

I’d be down for a kit to support the project. My cortex already has expansion headers soldered

I’ll probably want a PCB+panel at least. Wasn’t planning on getting a visual cortex, but I’ve run into a dead end trying to troubleshoot my cadet sync generator build–so I should probably just buy a vc.

Sign me up for one too!

I’ve been running the VC component output back into its Input Decoder, and then out from those 1v RGB outputs into the MemPal. Not so ideal, of course, as I lose that component input. :-/

I’d like to get a kit or prebuilt as well. This is a great project, thanks!

Def. in for a panel/pcb when you are ready to take orders

I am in for this! Would take a kit, or panel/PCB, or built version.

I’d be interested in panel+pcb or kit! YUV version would be great too - any chance to combine them, or will they be separate exapnders?

right! I would absolutely go for the dual if it was an option

I started to lay the PCB for the YUV version, but decide to first finish this run of pcbs test them, prepare kits, and a solder prebuilt modules and then will do the YUV.

Both will be compatible and can be used at the same time since they read from the RGB expansion bus of the Visual Cortex

Sounds absolutely reasonable. I am definitely still interested also in a single RGB version!

I’ve just got home and the postman had a surprise, and I remembered a quote from a famous American movie:

Life is like a box of pcbs and panels, you never know what your gonna get.
-Forest Gump

IMG_20190506_1928413000×4000 3.57 MB

So final version pcbs (will double check them again everything is fine) and PANELS arrived.

IMG_20190506_1923403000×4000 3.44 MB

IMG_20190506_1923333000×4000 3.22 MB

IMG_20190506_1923074000×3000 2.76 MB

@pbalj now caps are nicely placed, thanks for the suggestion I completely forgot about it.

IMG_20190506_1922574000×3000 2.91 MB

IMG_20190506_1920253000×4000 2.81 MB

IMG_20190506_1920353000×4000 2.61 MB

Panels fit perfect on previous pcb (which is same footprint as the new one) there will be 2mm Red PCBPanel and 2mm Black aluminium panels. I don’t know if I should give the option to chose or just include both on every kit…

I still need to get to details to costs on kits and built modules, but will probably target at 50€-60€ for kits and 70€-90€ for built modules (plus shipping from Spain probably 6€-15€ depending if you are EMEA or Mericaaa). After all kits are sold I’ll sell spare pcbs :).

So my next steps will be to check everything is fine with the pcb, if so I’ll probably send a Google Form in this thread so all of you can write which ones and how many kits/modules you will want.

After the form is closed I’ll be able make the order of the parts to Mouser (so 3 days) and then I’ll ask you within those days to send me a PayPal.

Ill keep you all informed, I’m very excited on this project because its a community project for the LZX community.

Updates on this, the board works as expexted, it as two minor bugs I’ll fix for the final version (pots are inverted, so positive signal should be from 12’ to 5’ (clockwise) and inverted signal from 12’ to 7’ (counterclockwise), second bug is that the color pins are swaped so Red is Blue and Blue is Red. in the video you can see how I patch a V ramp to the Byle and output that on the expander Red’s output.

One thing I wanted to ask on this thread for all your consideration and feedback is the following. When the attenuverter inverts the signal which is 0v to 1v DC from VC it outputs a 0v to -1 (inverted duh)… but the standard video signal is always 0v to 1v, so the inverted signal is not super usefull unless you use the AC switches or you invert it back or add a offset of 1v.

My question is, does it make sense and is useful for you to have an inverted (-1v) signal? Or should I replace the attenuverter with a attenuator (just attenuate from 0v to 1v and not invert). I’m scratching my head on which use case would be more useful for most ppl. I think there are use cases for both but what the vidiots think?

Maybe the best solution is to add 1v to the inveted signal, so its always 1V regardless if its inverted or not?

I’m asking all this for the first time when I actually plugged it and started to use it on different parts of my system.

It might be handy to have the inverted signal available for summing with a positive voltage. I don’t see much downside to using an attenuverter.

I’m def up for a kit or prebuilt, whichever. Ideally pre-built Really excited to combine the Cortex and MP like this. Thanks for your hard work!

I would be down with a prebuilt for sure!

Also in for prebuilt versions of both expanders when they’re available.

So I’ve been busy with another thing the last couple 2 weeks, but I think I will be able to finish the expander project in July. The current status is its a working version but with some noise, so I need to investigate whats the problem with the board.

This project wont get abandoned , anyway @pbalj told me he wanted to design/build/sell(?) another version of the expander he is probably working on so we may have 2 flavor of this expander soon!

I’m still very interested in a prebuilt unit!
at the same time
I like flavors
haha
I’m sure I’ll end up with a second visual cortex at some point that way I can do one of both

Ha! I am in the same boat. I am definitely getting a second VC in the future.

Im down for a prebuilt.

I am keen to order a pcb/ panel if possible , thanks

I´m also interested in an prebuilt one!!
greetings from sunny Bielefeld/Germany

Any news on this ? @pbalj ? I am interested in diy PCBs / or built modules for an output expander for visual cortex

Every time I patch my system, I miss this module. Wish I could help in some way, but I know very little about circuit design.

@creatorlars this could be a good idea for a new cadet module (diy pcb /panel), I feel like if more VC users knew what this does, it could be really popular

I’m happy to announce that the cortex expander is finally ready for production. I’ll post a vid later this week and all the details to order. Sorry for the big delays on this, but there were lots of things happening in my life lately but I’m back.

The plan is more less the following:

this week: I’ll send to fab the final pcb to China.
22-29/09 I’ll announce final cost and estimated shipping, a google form will be available to specify what you want. On 29 I’ll close the form and order components to the part supplier.
29/09 to 06/10 a friend and I’ll be soldering and building the prebuilt orders.

shipping is expected as soon each module is finished and tested, so first come first serve.

I’ll ship PCB+Panel only kits as soon the prebuilt modules shipping starts. I’m expecting this module to be very cheap hopefully. Anyway here is a link to a page we with some audio eurorack modules we have designed on the last years for local workshops in Madrid.

http://www.diy.t-37.net/

IMG_20190915_210455.jpg3000×4000 1.86 MB

Hell yes. Thanks!!!

oh this is awesome
so if we do get a prebuilt unit this will still require us to solder onto the visual cortex itself right?

Is that 4hp or 6hp? I’m in the middle of rearranging my cases, so I’ll leave some room for it.

The RGB pads on the Visual Cortex don’t have a header in place for a connector, so a tiny bit of soldering will be necessary.

4hp, like a cadet/castle

Yeah I does, there is no other way as the VC does not come with pins on those pads as stated before. I’ll show later on before anyone places an order what you will need to do, just to make sure you know what you are getting into.

Its actually pretty easy, but you will need a good soldering iron, since the PCB of the VC has a superb thermal design and its difficult to heat everything.

I’ve done very very minimal soldering like point to point to make passive boxes (switches, photoresistors, pots etc…)
but after looking at the back of the visual cortex I think it is something I could handle
I am very much looking forward to this being available

if you can solder a wire to a pot then you can do this!!!

it’s as simple as sticking the header in the holes and then applying heat and solder - watch a youtube video first on the basics of pcb soldering and you’ll be good to go!!

I think the hardest part will be removing the panel and reattaching it!

It will be included, also all the cables and everything needed except the soldering iron and some solder and patience

that is so rad! this is going to make for some very fun video synthing

I’d like to get in on this for a board and panel.

I already soldered pins on to my corrtex and made an output expander to send RGB to the MemPal, but it’s not buffered at all, and your better solution is appealing.

Save two for me if I don’t respond immediately, it’s a busy time

It works exactly like that.

The luma is unaffected by the RGB knobs and goes out directly.

The RGB goes to a bit higher than 1v when the knobs are fully clockwise, and -1v when it goes counterclockwise.

On the middle (12’ clock) the gain is 0 and the channel will not pass thru. Hope that makes sense.

UPDATE! The pcbs are been fabbed now in china

Tomorrow I’ll record a vid on the module and publish the costs and form to reserve a module. I’m planning on doing a 30 built run, and 30 pcb set, with some spares

Here is a vid I recorded to try to clear what I think is important.

TBH the only thing I dont like about this module is that potentiometers are too tight (close) so I sacrified some ergonomics in favor of having luma outs plus as-much-as-possible skiff friendly module.

It looks awesome! Ready to order

Nice video and great work @luix!

@luix How do I order one diy panel and pcb. Thanks
Please DM me for payment

IDGI why it needs 5x lm6172 ? Don’t they 2 channel on each chip

You have to buffer each input (3), each output (4), so you’re looking at 7 opamps minimum, or 4 LM6172’s. I guess you also need some for the luma mixer, too?

@joem is correct, the signals need gain in this case so they need to be amplified as well. I breadboarded a single channel similar circuit few years back and it would have used 6 LM6172’s (my memory’s hazy - no input buffer, inverting amp and inverting output buffer I think).

More updates on this, PCB from factory came and I built it.

I’m noticing some bleed noise on channels when doing the “hard edge” test that Lars always recommend to detect bleed, otherwise the board is good to go. I wrote to Lars and Phil to see if anything can be done to remove/reduce this.

This means maybe two more weeks of delays so you all start ordering yours. I don’t want to ship you a board that has some noise (even if is small) and I’ll end up refunding paying stuff so just want to be super honest and clear with what you will be getting… I will record a clip explain this hard edge test, and showing the bleed so you all know a little bit more on how you should test your video equipment/commands.

What’s a little noise on a hard edge! Standing by, @luix…

I feel a little stupid here, so please excuse the noob question!

Can anyone explain, simply, why I might want to do this with my Visual Cortex? I’ve read through the thread here, but I can’t get a grasp on what this upgrade might be used for, in practical terms?

this gives your visual cortex LZX standard 1/8 outputs of whatever is coming out at the composite/svid/component outs
RGB and LUMA

this could be used for feedback, further processing connecting to another system lots of fun stuff!

So we’re not placing orders yet right? Don’t want to miss this when it’s time!

Im waiting for final PCBS with ground plane to reduce bleed noise, they have been manufactured and their are on their way to me so should be receiving them next week probably.

One use case would be if you have another module with its own set of video outputs and you want to feed it a signal that’s mixing both of the Visual Cortex’s compositing channels together. Some LZX modules have RGB 1v outs (Color Chords, Marble Index, Mapper, Memory Palace), just as the Visual Cortex has two sets of RGB ins in its compositing section.

However, the only way you could get full RGB (or the functional equivalent, at least) out of a Visual Cortex without any sort of expansion attached is via the component outputs. BUT, in order to put this back into another part of the LZX system, it would need to be decoded again via another Visual Cortex input decoder section or a TBC module, as it is now a valid video signal instead of the LZX 1v standard. This expansion panel serves as a much less cluttered way to continue processing a fully patched Visual Cortex, or to take advantage of final output via another module (such as the DVI/HDMI output of the Memory Palace).

Did that help?

Thanks Tylerm, that’s very clear explanation.
I guess I’ll join the queue for this awesome upgrade!

Finally got my expander installed and it’s working great! This thing kicks ass with memory palace

Great to hear that enjoy it

yeah no turning back

it really made the chromagnon make more sense
that was I think one of the last straws for me before pre ordering (getting this up and running)

It’s like have an entirely new flavor of feedback for memory palace. Wonderful!

Thank you so much for this @luix it’s amazing!
I can’t believe that it’s taken me this long to get around to building it!

The only thing that I would advise is that if you use a shrouded, keyed header, then it will overhang the PCB a little bit. This makes it a little bit to fat to fit between Doepfer type rails. I desoldered it and put a pin header on, instead.
As you mentioned, the PCB ground plane makes desoldering difficult.

Great news!!! so let me know if I can do anything for you or share any patch ideas

every time i used this expander it makes me more excited for chromagnon

things are going to get wild

is it normal that all my knobs are at about ~75% turned to pass through the regular colors?
I guess my expectation was that it would be at 50% but I could just be misunderstanding something

this has always been the case since I got it from you but I never really mess with the knobs so I forgot until the other day when I was re setting up my system

Following this because I’m a bit unsure on that too!

@Genlok @wednesdayayay

Yessss I specifically designed the circuits so they have about 120% gain when full clockwise or counterclockwise (inverted), I found I wanted to have extra “saturation” on my output signals sometime and that extra 20% worked fine. The downside of this is you will have to dial in the unity gain which has not been a problem for me really but well doesnt have to work for everytone as it works for me

12:00 > zero gain
3:00 > 100%
4:30 > 120%
9:00 > -100% (inverted)
7:30 > -120% (inverted)

Nice Expander, @luix! If one would forego the RGB pots, how hard would it be to just put the RGBY jacks right on a Visual Cortex, so as to save HP and keep my panels consistent looking?

I dont think its possible the VisualCortex panel is full. Unless you do an extreme mod an desolder the RCAs for components out or the composite outs and then drill, or something like that but I really dont recommend you doing so…

Oh! That’s a good idea, @luix
If there’s a way to squeeze in a toggle switch, one could add RGB option to the component out RCA jacks.
Or, the same amount of panel real estate would fit a mini jack to accomodate a triple mini to RCA adapter http://tinkersphere.com/raspberry-pi-accessories/523-raspberry-pi-a-plus-b-plus-composite-to-rca-adapter.html

Where can I order one of these?!

try dm’ing luix - he may have some left - may only be a kit or a pcb/panel set though

I checked today and I have 2 prebuilt and lots of pcbs so whatever you prefer.

Hoping to buy one too, PM’d as well!

Is there a website I can purchase through?

I’m interested in one of each of the PCBs!!!

Are there any PCBs/kits still available? If so where can I order?

Hi everyone!

I’m very sorry that I have not answered before any messages, but I was unaware of all of them for some reason I don’t get notifications on my email when someone PMs (I have to double check the notifications configuration on my account).

I still have pcb+panel sets if anyone is interested! Price is the same (in euros) please just note that snail mail to the US takes a lot of time now, some orders have taken probably 3 weeks and others almost 7-8 weeks but in the end all of them arrived safely.

If you want to get a set, just drop me a message to hadesbox at gmail dot com.

Sick! Just emailed you

I know @cinema.av (Evan Henry) was trying to get ahold of you - did y’all get in contact?

Yeah I just answer him today, need to hear back from him

Per the book of faces (which I look at approx. once a month or so), apparently @pbalj has a VC expander module.

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a little different with no knobs but negative outs of everything included instead
so neat to see more stuff coming out from PB well not THAT PB…

@wednesdayayay I see what you did there you ciat head

Have messaged Luix, are you still shipping?

would love one too if still possible

Since some have asked about availability, Teleos Modular in Columbia, SC has one cortex expander left, last I checked. He has a reverb shop.

Not anymore… Sorry (not sorry)

Haha, nice, I got my order in before posting.

For those still interested, I noticed Teleos Modular listed more for sale today. I’m not affiliated with his shop, but I’ve picked up a few things from him and he’s a really cool guy. The build quality of the expander is excellent, technically and asthetically.

thx for the ups still have five built expanders available if anyone is interested & i can sell for $140 shipped in the US if bought direct instead of via Reverb. send me a message or email if you want one!

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VC expansion header install failed - that or the module is bad. Took my time, but having a heck of a time getting the contacts hot enough to get the solder flowing. Using a Hakko digital soldering station at 700F with Kester 245 63/37 no-clean solder.

On a brighter note, I modded my ER-301 Rev 7 so that it could talk I2C to my F8R faderbank. I thought that would be harder - had to solder a resistor lead to bypass an SMT diode. But the VC header is proving to be more difficult.

Repeat after me - You love to solder, you are a worthy, patient person who loves to solder. I don’t think the affirmation is working.

I don’t have any direct help with the actual issue, but when troubleshooting something like this, it’s a good idea to keep your signal chain as minimal as possible. Forget about the Color Chords for now. Instead test straight with “Prismatic Ray → Memory Palace” and “Prismatic Ray → Visual Cortext & Expander → Memory Palace” (and make the VC Expander → MP connection just be a single channel, not all three).

Doing that reduces the variables and reduces the likelihood of accidentally connecting something wrong or forgetting to connect something. (And makes it easier for other people to help you out for the same reasons.)

Did you build the Expander yourself or did you just solder the 6 pin header to your VC?
I don’t have a VC but I’ve seen the drawing for the expander module. Maybe your 6-pin header is flipped 180 degrees. Three of the pins are RGB luma and three are ground so it is possible that luma and ground are all switched.

Lets have a look at your 6-pin ribbon cable between the VC and Expander.

Yes, that is good advice. I was only using the Color Chords to demonstrate that the Memory Palace 1V RGB inputs were working, to rule the Memory Palace out as the issue.

The Visual Cortex does not have front panel 1V outs (like the Color Chords), but does have them on the circuit board. That’s what the 3rd party expander is for, though it requires the soldering of a header on the VC board for a ribbon cable to the expander.

But I can test one at a time, but even if one of them were working and the others weren’t, I would expect some change of output on the display.

I didn’t build the expander or the ribbon cable, but I did solder the header. My hunch is that is where the problem lies.

I can hook it up to a scope and see if there is output from each channel.

Thanks for your help!

I bought the module prebuilt from the creator in one of the first batches over a year ago, but only got around to soldering the header this weekend when redoing my cases. He also provided the cable (and header)

I was careful to lineup the little triangle on the header with the R channel, so the indentation in the shrouded header is facing outward in this case.

I’ll pull it out again tomorrow and take a look at it and get some photos.

Thanks for your help!

Hola @northerntao Josh, I’m very very sorry for the problems you are facing, its very weird but possible that the module I sent you is broken. I personally tested each “built” module for at least 30mins on my Cortex, precisely to avoid all these problems with all the people that got the expander. I wanted to avoid hassles to ship it back etc.

Anyway can you please take out the module and send some hires pictures to my mail hadesbox at gmail (or post them here for other future users, whatever you prefer) of solder joints on the expander header in the VCortex and also of the module (both sides) to see if there is any obvious soldering problem on the module?

If you want to ship the module back its also an option so I can check it out whatever you prefer.

If you want to test the expander “standalone” without the cortex, and you can do simple soldering I recommend you building this board with 3 minijacks and a 3x2 header for testing the module. Its a super simple board that I built for testing each Expander before actually plugin it to my system, with it you can directly input 3 signals and test the three channel attenuations to discard if there is a problem with the module.

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I just remembered another user that had similar problems, and it was because I shipped him a “too short” cable and when he plugged the expander and put it back to its case, the header cable was unplugged by all the wiggling of the module during the module installation on his case.

The cable should be just enough to connect it, the very first cables I made were super short to avoid noise because the longer an unshielded cable, its more probable it becomes antenna for noise.

Hey @luix! Thanks for the response! I’ve had a busy week with work and life so I haven’t had a chance to look at this again. Hopefully tonight.

The case its in is kinda cramped with cables so it may be the cable is loose. I’ll try that first. If not I’ll try removing and redoing the solder joints with a bit more heat on my iron. It took a lot longer than I’m used to to get the solder to melt.

@luix - typing this on a phone and this forum editor hides the typing after a couple paragraphs.

So I’ll try that and maybe a different solder and flux. I’m using the no-clean Kester solder which has worked fine for me in the past, but I’m not a big DIYer.

If that doesn’t work I’ll let you know. I have some breadboard and various components laying around.

I know its been a long time since you shipped the module - I appreciate your help after all this time

@luix Hey Luix! By any chance, do you still got any VC Expander PCB + Panel available? I’m looking for one. Thanks!

I have the kit, but not the 6-pin header for the back of the Visual Cortex. I keep buying headers but the pin spacing doesn’t match the points on the back of the Visual Cortex. What spacing am I looking for? 3mm? 2.54mm? 2mm? Maybe some LZX folks can advise.

Here’s an extract from the BOM - quoting Mouser part numbers for 2.54mm spacing header

10 pcs. 2.54mm 2x3 Pin 6 Pin Straight Male Shrouded PCB Box Header IDC Socket Amazon.com

Any standard 2.54mm double pin header should work, then you just strip it to 2x3.

During Update-Process, I was asked for the memory format then I was shutting down the power. After restart, there comes now always the same Syslog screen where I should format and then power on/off. What should I do now?

Try powering off several times at that point. Meaning hold the buttons as instructed and power off one time. Then, when it asks you to hold the buttons and do it again, DON’T hold the buttons and simply reboot.

It works now. Thank you

Really nice work on the menu. The way MP works is easier to understand now and the new features broaden its capabilities quite a bit. It will take a while to explore all this!

The menu refresh rate - can that be improved or is it already as fast as it will ever be?

I will be able to improve the menu refresh substantially on V20. It got de-prioritized for V19 due to time limits. Now is the time to put in your suggestions, thoughts, and feature requests!!

I’ll be spending some good time with it soon as i’m almost done with scrawl update!
will report back for sure

I’d like to see more options with tiling, namely the ability to set them up in triangular, pentagonal or hexagonal patterns. Also capability to warp tiled patterns into 3d-ish perspective with a horizon line. Then, using all the existing capabilities with mirroring, one could make rooms and tunnels with visually active walls, for example. Additionally, like the tiles, I think mirroring could go into new territories beyond quadrants. Dreaming big here but if you could then fold the patterns into 3d shapes, that would be insanely cool.

This video shows how simple in theory patterns can be distorted into realistic perspective just by moving a few points where lines intersect.

so I am having some problems uploading this new firmware. I currently have v.18 and want to upgrade to the new one.

my screen is now stuck on this SYSLOG page where it keeps telling me to press the Yellow + orange buttons and then power it back on. After I do that it keeps loading the same page.
The screen says:

UI Init OK
SD Card OK
ERROR: Could Not access internal memory Press yellow + Orange buttons to reformat.

Do I have to hold the 2 buttons down the whole time when it tells me and turn it off?

Or do I just simply press the 2 buttons, let go and then reboot?

Ive done the same prompt may 90 times and it keeps taking me to the same screen.

Im sure all these power ups and downs isn’t good for the modules?

So far it seems my Memory Palace is bricked.

Any help would be great!

@tenshun
I ran into this too after having to pull SD card and loading files directly from PC. In hindsight, I should have just tried booting from SD without pulling. Seemed like the SD cage thing was glued down and ended up popping off while trying to flip it up. Or I’m just a doofus

I tried following prompt a couple times to end up stuck in SYSLOG screen loop. As mentioned above, try power cycling without doing format. Worked on mine at least. Hope this helps!

ill tried turning it on and off without pressing the 2 buttons and see if that works and it still stuck on SYSLOG.

is there a way to just revert back to Version 18? or am i just screwed

Any chance to decrease the fan speed on the module in V20??? I noticed it’s extremely loud in a studio setting. Maybe it’s possible to mod the fan or install a larger one?

You tried removing the micro sd card, formatting and copied the files over? Next step would be with the power off Hold down the “BOOT FROM SD” button located on the rear and power on.

i just tried the method you describes now my Memory Palace turns on with a Black screen and nothing pops up.

This is turning into a big mess . i just want to go back to Version .18 Where it was working .

Damn, sorry that didn’t help.

Please note that I’m only guessing and definitely don’t want to give you anymore advice that doesnt work!!

I would think that you could still rollback to v18 https://github.com/lzxindustries/firmware/tree/master/memorypalace. The user guide on here has instructions on updating firmware when it doesnt boot. Memory Palace User Guide I found removing the SD quite unpleasant so hopefully you don’t end up having to do that.

I finally got it back to version 18. I will most likely stick with this one. Trying to update to this new one has given me nothing but troubles.

Glad you were able to get it running at least!

Im liking the updated UI for v19 and extra features look promising but will most likely roll back to v18. Tile mode glitches out and I use quite frequently. Was really hoping there would be a way to get rid of or adjust the size of border that Tile mode puts around Vidiot image. Which is strange because there is no border when tiling internal images. Entirely possible I’m just oblivious to a way to do this already

this was solved simply for me by pressing the two buttons and allowing it to restart

then just power down (when it tells you to press the buttons again) like normal and back on

i’d just like to reiterate my request for triggering stills with cv or a slideshow mode for stills

V19 allows you to cycle through stills in a folder. It’s really fun!

The way to break the yellow & orange button loop is to use the “boot from microSD” button on the back. If you reached a black screen (with the module still receiving power) make sure you are set to internal sync and power cycle.

Whats the method for that, didn’t manage to have it running yet.

Just hold down the button on the back of the module while powering up. Make sure you are set to internal sync.

thanks for the input and help. but I’m just gonna stick this V.18 . This whole update thing was just giving me problems. It kept going to the SYSLOG page and kept telling me to format and restart over and over. I even did the boot from sd card and then it takes me back the the SYSLOG page all over again and takes me in that loop.

Im happy with this old firmware until they figure out a better way to update. Or at least make a detailed instruction on how to do update and if there is problems on how to trouble shoot it.

I totally understand your desire to stick with V18. Sorry that V19 has been a hassle.
The firmware update instructions in the User Guide are working for most people, with the addition of following the SYSLOG prompt once, then using the “boot from microSD” button the next time.
If you are using a Mac, it may be necessary to remove and reformat the micro SD card and run CleanMyDrive2 befor installing V19.

none of those instructions work.

I downloaded that cleanmydrive app and reformatted my card. Now the SYSLOG page the sd card does not even pop up.

I think that cleanmydrive app really messed up my sd card now.

Even after reformatting and coping the the zip folder of V19 onto it.
Tried doing the boot from sd card and it just goes to blank screen and nothing happens.

If I don’t do the boot from sd card then it just takes me to the SYSLOG loop.

Do you have Memory Palace set to internal sync with nothing else plugged in?

Yes. i have it set on Internal sync with nothing plugged into the back.

So i was able to revert the Memory Palace to V18 again.

Here are the steps that I do:

1. turn on memory palace
2. go to screen that enable usb connection
3. connect memory palace to computer
4. load firmware onto the drive that pops up on computer
5. make sure it overwrites old files
6. after loaded on memory palace eject from computer
7. disable usb access on memory palace
8. Update firmware
9. memory palace restarts to SYSLOG page
10. Press yellow + orange buttons to format internal memory
11. restart modular system with Internal sync switch on and nothing plugged in, also pressing boot micro sd button
12. turns on with SYSLOG page with the message:

UI INIT OK
SD CARD OK
ERROR : COULD NOT ACCESS INTERNAL MEMORY
PRESS YELLOW + ORANGE BUTTONS TO REFORMAT

13. turn on and same thing happens

Hello everyone. I’m so sorry it’s taken long to complete some missing instructions on this firmware update. The document posted below should clear up any confusion:

I’ll drop in over here as well for those not interested in using the FB group.

I finally updated to v19 a few days ago and I’ll confirm experiencing the same issue. I’ve had it happen 3 or 4 times over the last two days.

Do you mean that the media you are displaying disappears until you power cycle? Do the menu controls continue to function?

Yes, the image completely disappears and attempting to reload the file has no effect until the system is power cycled.

That is very strange. I would expect overall functionality to completely lock up at that point.

I think we’ve found the issue in the V19 code. Firmware improvements are already in progress.
Thank y’all for finding these bugs. Please continue to share any issues you are having.

Do you mean that when you freeze an image in Paint mode, the Clear button doesn’t make it disappear?

It seems that in V19 Paint mode, Freeze doesn’t allow the frozen image to be painted over. When you press Clear, the painting resumes.

Is the Clear button working when you use the Freeze function? That would be the best way to check if your button is working correctly.

This is my experience also, I recall using this feature when I first got my Memory Palace, but have been keeping up with the beta releases and don’t think I’ve been able to use this since the first time I updated the firmware. After engaging FREEZE, the CLEAR button does toggle FREEZE off, so the button is working.

Agreed. New MP user here… After watching that 2nd tutorial I definitely felt confused why that wasn’t working. I would certainly see the buffer clear feature being very useful.

Yes i m not able to clear the buffer anymore.
I think i’m going back to the previous OS.

someone on the facebook group asked about slit scanning
I posted a video we made and one that someone else did of slit scanning with the memory palace

It spurred me on to turn the system on and I tried to get slit scanning on the new firmware up and running

I’m having some issues

these all have to do with the X&Y params on the memory palace

X&Y parameters if slew is on light/heavy CV in doesn’t seem to work (“value” is unchanged)
CV in reads the values just fine though
some times slider &or value will jump to something other than 100% but then just go right back to it

if X/Y slew are on light/heavy the sliders on MP only works for ~50% of the throw (50-100) when in the 0-50 range it doesn’t change the value

when no slewing is on sliders work in full range though

is there any way to have X&orY sliders on the MP (while X&orY scroll is ON) still scale the scroll time of X&orY while CV is present?

I m doing slitscan too. I went back to V18, it s much straightforward for that kind of practice. Paint mode is unusable without the clear buffer function.

I’m also new to the MP, and have noted the same thing about the clear function as others. So far, I’ve been altering the width, center, and softness to clear the buffer. Freeze stops the keyed image from being added to the buffer, and clear resumes that action. The benefit is that you can stutter or flicker the feedback, layering foreground/background, then resume without blanking the screen. I figured that it was an intentional trade-off in functionality, since there are new/different possibilities to the way it is now.

My v20 suggestions each relate to alternate preview/monitoring output modes.

a. Could there be an option to make the video outputs match the RGB inputs rather than the RBG outputs, allowing for a display of the pre-feedback image, something one could monitor on the input on Liquid TV, for example? I understand that all the video outputs would probably need to be the same, since there is just one output encoder on the MP, but I’m sending the RGB feedback outs to the VC for final compositing anyway.

b. Could the Y output be assigned to be the key, as defined by the MP mode and fader settings, rather than the luma of the RGB outputs? Again, I was imagining this could be useful in sending to the Liquid TV, and also useful in patches, for any of a number of possibilities.

It feels odd even making suggestions at this point, because it’s such an awesome device as it is, and I love the new goodies in v19!

Best Wishes to everyone out there!

I m not agree. I think it s a bug. I set the ext trigger input to the clear function, it doesn t work either.
Maybe someone from LZX can tell us ?

I agree with you, something doesn’t seem fully resolved. On my MP anyway, clear does still have a function, which is to resume feedback on top of what is already there. I like the effect of stopping/starting, but it would be easier if Freeze would toggle on/off, rather than lock, and Clear could again erase the buffer. Again, I don’t know how things behaved before v19, and I’m just sharing some of my first impressions.

The clear function was designed in V19 to clear the frozen image from the buffer.

So there s no more a kind of clear screen function ?
In paint mode it’s weird

You can use the keyer controls (Width & Center) to clear the background, typically.

I don’t know if this has been brought up or addressed already, but navigating the media folders could be made a little simpler by using the enter key to select/open files or folders, then up or down to navigate/select, and enter to exit that branch. This would allow one to go backward and forward.

Additionally, it would be nice if folders and files didn’t auto load when they’re selected. Maybe a long press on the enter key could be a “load folder” and “load file” command so it’s not necessary to load things in sequential order only.

Agreed! This navigation upgrade won’t be in V20, but more likely in V21.

Feature request:
ability to zoom or overscan input slightly to remove sync line borders when using Vidiot as an input
(feature available in the ET Structure, TBC2 $800 module isn’t a realistic solution for just this issue, so Structure has become my Vidiot RGB output processor for now )

Documentation request:
Ghost and Scene mode
I kind of understand scene mode will play still animation folder loops, but unable to get anything out of ghost mode yet.

I’m messing with Scene mode a lot and I love it! Superb for making animated moire patterns.

Lars said on Facebook I should be able to load two different images into Scene mode by using the media loader for one layer and the delay slider for the second layer. This doesn’t seem to work for me. The delay slider does change the image offset from the media loader, but it changes both layers identically. Is there a trick or setting I’m missing to accomplish this?

Also, in case it hasn’t been documented yet, Scene mode is fairly unstable for me. Lots of hiccups in the image, blanking, etc. Happens with media or ARGB input. Not experiencing it in Warp mode.

I’ve noticed the slight undersized image of Vidiot output too (when I capture). I wonder if there is a trimpot inside that can perhaps fix this?

I’ve also got a black bar on whatever video source I plug into Memory Palace, visible when you I tile/reflect, even with an external scaler. But they’re aware of it and pretty sure Lars said that’s getting addressed in V20

yeah it would be pretty awesome to get that black bar sorted
it can be neat sometimes but it really threw me for a loop at first

What does the firmware reset do that resetting to defaults doesn’t? Does it reformat the whole thing, ie wiping any internal content I’ve added?

Reset firmware reverts your firmware to shipped version. The folders on the SD card remain untouched.

DISREGARD, Discussed on FB and still functions, just a UI glitch

Found a weird bug.
In Paint mode, Chromakey

Have softness set to CV ±1v
I send a negative voltage & the slider value gets stuck @ 0 in parameter view. It shows the CV coming in (a range of - values moving about) & shows the slider % changing but not the VALUE…it’s stuck @ 0. Modulation stops doing anything & so does sliding the slider (in terms of to the actual picture).
Switching to Luma & Back to Chroma unzoinks it but the second I send another neg voltage it’s fuct again.

Works perfectly fine in Luma mode - functions exactly as expected. The second I switch to Chroma mode w/ that neg modulation source to softness it’s bork’d. Removing the modulation source it’s still stuck.

Does anyone know what this glitch with the Memory Palace is? When I am trying to create something smooth and relaxing, this glitch kinda ruins it. It will be running smooth and then gets jerky.

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This is a known issue with V19 that will be corrected in V20 (coming soon!). Sorry for the trouble.

Good to hear! Thanks for the fast response!

I’ve never able to get anything going through the alpha or aux inputs on my MP. Does anyone have any tips? Generally working in Warp mode, and nothing I patch into those inputs seems to do anything. :-/

How these inputs work is conditional on the settings you have in the main menu page.

When the key mode is set to alpha it allows you to use an external key instead of luma or chroma keys.

The rest is in the Aux Mode, which controls alpha opacity, vertex mesh, or vertex spatial resolution. Patch some oscillators or ramps into aux and alpha and play around with those latter two modes, you’ll have a blast! Make sure to use the Aux slider.

when using the mesh stuff do yourself a favor and put some kind attenuation before the alpha input

I find it is so nice to use the AUX input and have control over the amount of the signal going to the effect

I use the bored brain splix so as to not tie up anything extra in the rack
koma cable these work too but I find the bored brain generally works better over more of the range of the slider

I’d be really interested in a firmware setting or hardware modification that would allow this. I can live with it but it would be nice to not have turbine sounds.

I’m probably just not very good at searching - but where does it say what features are new in V19? Can’t seem to find that info anywhere.

The Memory Palace User Guide has a description of the current (V19) features.

When doing mesh stuff do yourself a favor and put a Doorway before the alpha input

Cool, thanks! Do you have any more MP tutorial videos in the pipeline, by any chance?

Yes, there will be a full module walk-through when V20 is released.

Woho, awesome! Thanks again.

I noticed the option for 5V scaling on the VC inputs seems to be gone on the latest firmware (I only see 0 to 1 and -1 to 1). Or am I missing it somewhere?

Also thank you @Genlok and @wednesdayayay for the alpha input tips! Finally wrapping my head around that action. Appreciate the help

any idea when v20 will descend from the heavens?

Soon! Have you tried the beta release?

Is the newest update “memory palace v2.0.1 beta”?

i have not, super tempting, how risky is it?

Zero risk if connecting via USB, slightly riskier if removing the MicroSD (but still low risk).

^yes that would be me damaging my MP by removing the MicroSD card! It was stuck and wouldn’t dislodge when I tried pushing/removing so I thought it was a ‘pull’ instead of locking. That damaged the locking mechanism. yeah so now my MP is sitting at LZX awaiting repair!! So might want to just try the USB route

i have a question about stills and the memory palace firmware.
will it ever be possible to use a parameter (e.g., aux or delay) to scroll through stills while in warp mode?

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised with the upcoming firmware.

What’s the estimated eta on that?

can’t wait! beta working great btw!

I’m not sure if this has been brought up anywhere else before, but the X mirror is never centered on a 4:3 screen, even when using MP in 4:3 mode. Being able to offset this manually in the options would be handy.

Centering is definitely in the discussions.

My update experience:
I went for the SD card right away and wasn’t ware that the sdcard holder needs a push in of the card in order that it comes out again. I applied some force (not much) until I realized how it works.

The boot afterwards failed stuck on line “media ok” until I set the sync to internal and then on “frame 1 ok”. Pushing the red and yellow button lead to an SD card error. Pushing the boot SD button on the back lead to a black screen.

I pushed the sd card on the back in several times and appied some force in the direction of insertion on the little clip that holds it. Since then the Mempal boots normal again.

Please add some red cap note in the update manual about the sd card slot if others can confirm this issue!!! It might happen to others as well.

^You’ll notice my posting earlier where I damaged!! Still in the LZX shop awaiting repair. Just go the USB route honestly. I think it’s safer and don’t have to bother removing the module from your rig to access the microSD card.

Hey there, I noticed in my DJ stream this weekend, that y Symmtery is inverting not just the image but also the field dominance order too in some cases. So as seen here the lower y mirror still image has stair stepping the the upper does not.

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In relation to symmetry, several others have already mentioned the Y being lower than middle of frame with Memory Palace. I also noticed X being off center, and generally have to fix it with a slight scale and reposition of 20-23 pixels. But the X off center seems to happen with all my various brands of synths and video mixers, so better not to change the X, but looking forward to the Y position update. =)

How’s the beta v2.0.1 coming along? I haven’t tried it yet waiting for official consumption.

The beta works great. You should try it out. Updating is very easy. Simply put the BIN file into either the SD or internal drive and select UPDATE FIRMWARE in the System menu.

Oh really? You don’t have to do the usual firmware update process involving a PC?

You will have to connect via USB or remove the MicroSD card to add the new BIN file to either the card or internal drive.

Updated to v2.0.1! USB route is the easiest and preferred here!

Is there an overview anywhere over what’s new in the beta firmware? I just loaded it up, but can’t immediately see anything different.

The Beta just fixes bugs present in V19. The upcoming firmware will have lots of new features.

Ah, ok, thanks! I still have a bit of a “jittery” image that I had on the last firmware as well when using the media loader as source - it’s like there’s an ever so slight movement going on with the aspect ratio or something. But I’ll try it out some more tonight, see if maybe there’s some setting I have on that’s causing it.

The beta definitely doesn’t solve all of the bugs in V19. Lars is investing a ton of time into V20 official to make sure there aren’t any future issues.

Sounds great - thanks for the info! Looking forward to it.

Hey folks. Just wondering something about the V19 firmware. In V18 when in the WARP mode, I was able to have the original keyed image stationary in the foreground with the feedback in the background that could be zoomed, moved, rotated, stretched as needed. I believe this was just a matter of selecting the routing of the keyer(?). Am I missing something, or has that option been removed from V19? If so, would be nice to have that feature back in a future update.

Also, incase it hasn’t been mentioned yet. In lieu of notched sliders to indicate the dead zone, it would be nice if the display noted when the slider was at the 0 position. Either with a value, or a colour, or other indicator.

Oh, and this was a suggestion that I made previously for the V19 firmware, but it doesn’t look it made the cut. It would be great to have option for what the rotation is relative to. The way I prefer the rotation orientation is so that when adjusting vertical or horizontal movement, the rotating object moves relative to the display, not relative to the rotated frame’s orientation. Does that make sense? In other words, if the object is rotating, adjusting the Y slider up will always move the object up no matter where the frame is in its rotation.

Thanks!

[Edit: I wrote all of that not realizing that a Beta v20 firmware was released eons ago. Apologies if any of the above was addressed in V20]

just another little possibly bug report
when in paint mode you can use the softness slider as a decay so that your paintings fade out.

this is awesome!
I’d love to see a bit more decay time possible. It seems like there is a tiny jump between not fading out and fading out pretty fast.
(using latest firmware)

however if reflect or tile are on then softness seems to stop working altogether.

Are there future plans to add in a snapshot feature from the ARGB inputs? I wouldn’t imagine it could do full frame rate sampling but I’d be very interested to see an extension of the animation looping where individual frames could be directly pulled into the Media Loader in Memory Palace.

You can already loop the most recent 64 frames of incoming RGB (using Freeze and A/B in any mode but Warp). To put that into the Media Loader, you’d have to capture your video output, split into frames, and load back into Memory Palace via the usual route (which is fun to do over and over again).

Yup, that’s roughly my current process for playing back animations with content generated within the LZX system. Just trying to save a few steps.

When you’re playing through frames on the media loader, it would be cool to have an option to add a fade transition between frames rather than being a hard cut.

Any hints on when we’ll see some updates to memory palace?

Any hints on when we’ll see some updates to memory palace?

Release of a bugfix update to clear some existing issues is in a WIP state right now (but being actively worked on.) We should see that in 2021.

I’m reserving Q1 2022 next year just to bring all the firmware to the same place, so that’s when we’d see Memory Palace integrate some of TBC2’s new code. From that point, we should have our development pipeline stabilized and be much more responsive across all products. This is the current plan.

Read from this post down for info on that:

To elaborate a bit:

I don’t have all of those answers for you right now. We haven’t reached any firm decisions on what will change about the Mk2 hardware, or when that change will happen. We have not done extensive testing of Memory Palace to determine it’s capability to run natively in any of the new Gen3 sync modes. Only that we need to make the revision before it goes back into production. Since Memory Palace is one of our main products, getting it back into production is a priority. So we’re planning for Q1 2022, which is probably the first we’d be able to tell you more.

Our main mission will be to ensure that firmware development will continue on Mk1 and Mk2 hardware platforms in parallel.

Whatever the case with hardware sync/processing modes capability – remember, your Gen3 system can always run in NTSC & PAL modes and be 100% compatible with anything before Gen3. So at a minimum, there is full backwards compatibility already planned.

this also makes me wonder how the Escher sketch will do with the new non ntsc/pal sync possibilities

this also makes me wonder how the Escher sketch will do with the new non ntsc/pal sync possibilities

Escher Sketch is much simpler, since there is no video rate outputs or inputs, it can run without sync.

What about using a passage or doorway with the gen 3 modules? Will those expedition modules be able to process Automata signals (oscillators, ramps) that are synced to HD rates?

If they don’t have a sync connection on the back, they’ll just work. Maybe some slight softening of the image but I’d imagine no where close to when using audio rate commands. HD is faster than SD but it’s much smaller jump than from audio rate to video rate signals.

Thank you very much for clarifying that. I had a feeling that might be the case. Hopefully the softness is minor and useable.

I really doubt you’ll get the extreme blur you might be envisioning but we’ll all see for certain when we get our hands on these new modules and start patching 'em up!

Yes, this update to Gen3 isn’t a huge bandwidth boost on the analog side or anything. We expect the Gen3 modules to perform a little better on the bandwidth side of things, but most of the update on the circuitry has to do with noise floor and signal integrity in general.

The sync timings are not hugely different from each other. The big resolution increase comes at the point of sampling or digital conversion. An HD signal is sampled with a 74.25MHz pixel clock instead of a 13.5MHz clock typically used for SD signals. So it’s the same analog signal either way. It just gets sampled more times, in HD mode.

So how soft some images get in the HD timings, I don’t know. It’s not the analogue path that’s fundamentally changing – it’s the way that path is being encoded and sampled.

As this topic is supposed to be about Memory Palace V19, I’m going to shut it down. Could y’all post further suggestions/requests for future firmware in this thread?

Questions about Gen3 Modules can go here:

Does this mean we need to use a 75R terminator for the end of a sync chain?

Not quite, it just means every sync input is already terminated, and all sync outputs are buffered transmission lines. No 75R switches or loop thru option. This allows for a much more consistent expectation in terms of sync distribution and performance, and is most reflective of how modern broadcast gear works when dealing with sync references.

There is a 10ns propagation delay per buffer, so at worst, that means that if you have your TBC2 downstream from your ESG3 through a few buffers, you’ll have to adjust the pixel delay on TBC2 to get pixel-perfect alignment relative to output sync. So this is what I mean by “not a practical concern for most users.”

Ah, got it. Thanks. I figured I was misinterpreting it.

3A per 104HP? Wow, no wonder y’all moved to 12VDC and onboard power. That’s fully bonkers. The step up to HD bandwidth requires that much more overhead?

How does the onboard power compare to say a linear supply?

Here I was expecting to power my system over euro for ultra low noise but sounds like even a 25A supply might be getting close to the power budget

Looking at the total load, it’s not too far from our previous recommendation of 20mA per HP (10mA per HP on +12V and 10mA per HP on -12V.) It’s just all on one bulk rail. It sounds like a lot until you realize you can get 3Amps of 12VDC on a wall wart for much cheaper than any EuroRack options available. Just look for power supplies designed for CCTV equipment and LED lighting.

There’s also a lot more circuitry behind the panels of these new modules compared to anything we’ve done before. These are new, all-discrete circuit design topologies, which run a little bit hotter than some of the ASIC parts we’ve used in the past like LT1256.

None of this really relates to HD vs SD bandwidths specifically – it’s more about improving the performance of the environment all these signals live inside across the board.

How does the onboard power compare to say a linear supply?

Typical ripple in a linear supply is 3-4mV. Our power board’s noise floor is < 1 mV ripple. It’s analogue, so I’m sure there will always be some noise beyond that to contend with, especially if you’ve got lots of gain stages in your patch. But this is far and beyond cleaner than what we’ve done before.

Here I was expecting to power my system over euro for ultra low noise but sounds like even a 25A supply might be getting close to the power budget

Yeah no need for that – that’s part of the point – you don’t need to speed hundreds of bucks on low noise EuroRack power supplies or busboards – because on these modules you’ve already paid for that (they’re integrated into the power entry, and part of the module’s price tag.)

If you’ve got existing power solutions for your earlier modules that are working out great for ya then just stick to those! No need to change anything. You can squeeze a couple Gen3 modules in if you want. But if you’re planning a whole Gen3 row, just skip the Euro power supply and power it from the bulk DC12V instead.

By my rough calculations, that’s around 2A per 84hp row. A 12U rack cabinet gives me 4 rows, and require maybe 8A of power.

So my plan is to a pair of DC Distros to power a 12U cabinet for my Gen3 commands. Anything standalone, like Chromagnon, can sit outside the cab. I have an existing 12U cabinet using a pair of Malekko PSUs for older commands.

I love Gen3. It solves all the power issues that have been bugging me since 2015. Thanks!

Hadn’t considered that it’s all on the bulk rail - that’s more promising for a DIY clean power scheme - was thinking 3A± per 104.

I’m in the camp of having gone through the massive pain & expense of building/designing a clean power solution for my setup so was just trying to wrap my head around if/how that fits into Gen3 going forward.

Thats really impressive that they’re sub-1mv, brilliant move by you cats for building an onboard power solution - too long has power been the bane of video modular. Hell, eurorack in general, but video especially.

RE the dc distro
is the preferred use case that each output gets its own module or will it be ok to daisy chain multiple modules together?

iirc from the original spec for it, you should be able to daisy chain multiple modules together

hopefully this will also work with just putting a hole in the case and daisy chaining a 3A (or more) 12V power supply…

We won’t officially be supporting any daisy chain cables just because it’s a potential liability. You do not want to have loose/disconnected hanging DC barrels crammed behind the modules in your rack after installation – that could short against parts or connectors on the rear circuit boards and cause issues. So if you have unused connectors on your daisy chain cable, be sure you cap them with an insulated barrier or insulate them with electrical tape, etc before power up.

Also, with daisy chaining it would be possible to connect more modules than your power barrel/brick can support. So it puts you in the position of adding up your current ratings. On the LZX DC Distro the connector itself is rated for 5A maximum. So even if you had a 15A brick for example, you wouldn’t want to push 15A of current through the connector.

Also, if you are going to daisy chain you need to ensure you are using a wire gauge thick enough to carry the current. So you’d want to do it in segments, not in one long row. For example a 1 in, 5 out chain cable per row, with each cable going to a DC distro outlet, would be better than several daisy chain cables in series with each other.

TLDR; Daisy chain is okay, but you need to know what you’re doing. If you stick with DC distro or a limited scheme, you don’t have to think about it as much.

I prefer parallel distribution like DC Distro or these kind of supplies, where you have parallel output adapter from the power brick directly:

https://www.amazon.com/Fancy-Buying-100V-240V-Certified-Transformers-Fits/dp/B076HKCRNG/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2UHOUMFRU0SG0&keywords=dc+12v+cctv+power+supply&qid=1642358102&sprefix=dc+12v+cctv+power+supply%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-2

this looks to be the same thing but for uk!

Yes, you shouldn’t have trouble finding a wide variety of DC12V solutions! There are CCTV supplies designed to be used with pigtail leads as well, and rackmounted options. Also any generic 12V switcher closed frame supplies like from Meanwell, etc – or DIN rail mount bulk 12V supplies, are all options if you want a dedicated install without wall warts.

I’m sure some of these 12VDC parts are better than others (connector/cable quality, power output stability, expected lifetime of use, etc) but the great thing about any of them is that they are all easy to replace or maintain if something burns out – and most importantly, the Gen3 modules should perform consistently regardless.

Anything we stock at LZX will have to be marked up over what you’d get on the open market, but I view that more as the cost of a verifiable supply chain – if we’re offering something like DC Distro, DC jumpers, power bricks, etc it will be after we’ve put in the work to test them with the system and ensure that a user with no desire to learn the ins and outs of DIY power options can just plug it all in and it works.

For the DC Distro, that’s the “this will work, I don’t have to add anything up” approach. If you start daisy chaining, just make sure to add up all your module currents and make sure it does not exceed either 5A (the connector rating) or the DC brick rating. (And insulate any unused output connectors!)

There will be some revised DC distro options coming as well as barebones rack ear + rail kits. The current plan is to have those ready at the time DWO3 is put up for sale (the last of the 5 module basic modular set we’ve been working on.)

That’s why I plan to use a selection of 2-waym/3-way splitter cables with my DC Distro, with the splitters “upgrading” as I add more modules, up to a max of 14 modules on one brick (using up to four 3-way splitters and a single 2-way splitter).

That sounds like a good plan. Little velcro straps to keep things tidy as you go is probably a good investment. Due to the L shape of the gen3 modules, there’s a kind of cavity created just below the DC barrel connectors on the rear, the intention is that even if you have a shallow case, this pocket area is enough room to keep any rear cables neatly wrapped rather than potentially smashed against the back of the case.

If you are adapting an existing case and want a no-soldering easy install (and don’t want a DC power entry module up front) you could use a DC feed thru bulkhead, like this:

Well, I’m using 19" racks with an 8" depth. I think that should be deep enough for Gen3!

I like the cable-tie tip. I have some simple “wire” cable-ties that came with various cables, so I coudl make use of them in my Gen3 case. However, I shall now also consider using velcro. Thanks.

I’ve just got this one. The output jack from the PSU isn’t 2.1mm. The adapter has 2.1mm outputs but isn’t suitable for bulkhead mounting. Just something to keep an eye out for.

Edit: the other thing that I’m seeing is a lot of adapters with a 2.5mm internal that are being advertised as 2.1mm. They only show the dimensions on a small diagram and claim that they are compatible.

Thanks for this update. When reading the explanation of how things went with Chromagnon and TBC2 it definetely makes sense

And it’s good to know that my earlier investment in a huge power supply wasn’t for nothing…

Have to read this more later, but wanted to say I am super excited about 1080p, and 720p 60fps in particular. Progressive and High frame rates are gonna be awesome for sensory translator work.

Oh, yes. For me it would be 1080p and 50fps PAL. I have a lovely set of PAL CCTV cameras that I use for feedback. I also have some HD-SDI dome cameras. So I’m real interesting in how all these might work in a hybrid SD/HD feedback setup. I also have a pair of Sensory Translators begging to be used in this context. Nevermind processing HD video and stereo audio.

Ah man - I hate to be the one to bring it up - but the mention of TBC2 being interrelated/co-dependent on Chromagnon. Should we still expect to see TBC2 right after the rebuild is done on this first batch (I believe there was a post in December saying around something like around 2 months for rebuild?) - or is it going to continue to be held back as Chromagnon testing & finalization continues? Theres nothing I need more than to inject some external video into my system. I just ordered my third Composite to component converter for Visual Cortex - both had scaling options but nothing locked, gave me any image. Fingers crossed for #3 I guess, it was the expensive one

TBC2 rebuild is in progress. No setbacks from Gen3. The team continues to push hard to meet goals.

Hey, in case you haven’t come across this yet, the Ambrey composite to component converter is most people’s go-to for this as it definitely works with Visual Cortex. I know how maddening it is to try to solve this issue, so here’s a link:

Firmware is looking great on all of these projects, it’s the hardware being finalized that’s holding us back at the moment. We can’t release any firmware until the hardware is 100%, so that’s where we’re focused.

Remember that TBC2, Chromagnon, and anything with sync or ramps infrastructure in Gen3 (ESG3, DSG3, etc) all share a common codebase. It’s going to be to everyone’s advantage that we did it this way (it’s important that we are testing all of them together – TBC2/Chromagnon/ESG3/DSG3) before releasing any of them, but it’s been a long haul to say the least.

To put it another way – ESG3 or DSG3 being done also means a huge chunk of Chromagnon/TBC2 is done as well. Everything’s moving forward together. The modules have actually been helping immensely with finally conquering the big projects.

Ah man - I hate to be the one to bring it up - but the mention of TBC2 being interrelated/co-dependent on Chromagnon. Should we still expect to see TBC2 right after the rebuild is done on this first batch (I believe there was a post in December saying around something like around 2 months for rebuild?)

It’s a perfectly valid question. Yes, we will ship TBC2 as soon as the rebuild is done (meaning within 2-3 weeks of the last of the rebuilt units being completed and fully past testing). The rebuild takes priority over all the Gen3 modular projects. The past month we’ve been pushing through the modular projects hard so that we have some coasting momentum in order to power thru TBC2 fulfillment.

We’ve had some detours, as I’ve tried to explain – at the intent of every decision we’ve made has been “what gets TBC2 and Chromagnon done?” ahead of all else. Unfortunately that’s involved “we have to release these modules so the company doesn’t die” over the past several months. If the company dies, that just leaves me alone to try to fulfill on TBC2 and Chromagnon, possibly on top of a dayjob, and that is just not realistic. So it’s a 2 steps forward, 1 step back scenario.

Every day we get closer, and right now the team is optimistic and working at our best.

Here’s a shot of the whole family under test from last week.

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Thanks - Good to know, that is the one I just ordered! Saved the best for last haha Unfortunately 3-4 weeks in between each order for international shipping to test so its been quite a long saga

Great, you’ll love it! That little Ambrey box is surprisingly valuable; for some reason VC won’t sync to my V40HD when fed component signal, but putting an Ambrey converter between the composite out and VC works like a charm, which has been necessary to get mixed HD video sources into my rack. Hopefully TBC2 will solve all this, but still the Ambrey box just works, and that’s what we all want

Thanks for sharing the link! I bought one for this price years ago when I first snatched up a VC, but I’ve noticed the price is a little high from the one guy I see selling it on eBay. Definitely worth it.

Hey Everyone!
Just curious if I missed a wave of shipments. I ordered a Chromagnon some time ago. Did I miss anything or are we all still waiting? I asking because my mailing address has changed three times over the years…

Thanks
Ofield

We’re all waiting, it has not shipped. Project timeline is on LZX’s website: https://lzxindustries.net/products/standalone_devices/chromagnon

You can email LZX to update your address.

Which other modules functionality overlaps with Chromagnon’s? Are there any modules that Chromagnon makes redundant entirely? I preordered a Chromagnon as my starter module, and am looking at modules to see what might go well with it.

Each additional module adds to the potential of additional complexity and control. I can’t really think of a module that would be redundant alongside Chromagnon. Maybe there are modules you wouldn’t find as useful, but that depends on what you are trying to achieve.
If you are interested in shape generation, then adding DWO3, DSG3, and modules to treat and combine their outputs would be best. From a pattern-making chain of modules you can then use Chromagnon to further complexify and animate the results for final output.
If you are interested in processing external video, you will want good modulation sources. DWO3 is also handy in this iteration, as well as Proc, SMX3, and modulators like LFOs and envelope followers.
Most LZX modules do double duty in external image and shape processing. There isn’t necessarily a wrong choice.

What about the video I/O modules TBC2 and ESG3?

TBC2 adds extra video inputs (plus other features) and ESG3 adds an output with brightness and contrast knobs (and invert/mute switches). Both would be useful expansions (or alternatives) to Chromagnon’s i/o. Not redundant, but it depends on your process and whether you need or could use expanded i/o.

Welcome to the forum @parallaxCloud
Basically Chromagnon replaces 5 (maybe even 6) Expedition modules, the range before Gen3. I’d say the list is: ShapeChanger, Navigator, Staircase, Mapper, Cyclops. (update: I forgot about Polar Fringe)

The only obvious one-to-one module in the Gen3 range to the list above is Stairs & Staircase but as @Z0NK0UT pointed out, there’s nothing wrong with duplicating some functions and Stairs/Staircase are really powerful, instant satisfaction commands.
Stairs doubles the number of outputs of Staircase, from 3 to 6, and triples it’s inputs although the 3 are summed and then processed together but hey, it’s a 3 input summing mixer thrown in which doesn’t only have to be for an RGB signal from a TBC for instance.
Someone fed back one of the outputs of Stairs back into one of it’s inputs and hey presto, Stairs owners suddenly had an instant snow-crash noise module in their racks

Although there’s currently 15 Gen3 modules currently available, many of those coming soon & next year will be function blocks of Chromagnon’s functions regarding movement/rotation, I’m sure many others won’t and yet all will be good additions to a Chromagnon centered system, imho.

Without knowing the signal routing in detail (ie, understanding if each section be patched individually) I wouldn’t so much say the Chromagnon “replaces” specific modules as much as “performs similar functionality”…

did youall do the knobacon thing yet? and if so do you have any video footage of the event we can watch.?

Knobcon Number Eleven, runs September 8-10, 2023

https://www.knobcon.com/

You’re right @Rik_bS but I was sure I basing what I wrote on something I read on here. I guess it’s an interpretation of this:

Discontinued:
Polar Fringe (replaced by Chromagnon)
Visual Cortex (replaced by Chromagnon, and other future Automata instruments)
Navigator (replaced by Chromagnon)
Shapechanger (replaced by Chromagnon, and other future Automata instruments)
Cyclops (replaced by Chromagnon)

It’s part of an older but important post. It’s towards the bottom, under “Discontinued”.
Here’s the link:

Any update on gen3 LFO & envelope follower modules? Pendulum I use all the time, been wondering what will replace it.

I suspect a new envelope follower is low on LZX’s list considering VH.S just dropped this bad boy: Aural Scan Video Synth — videoheadroom.systems

DWO3 is pretty impressive for LFO duties, so we have been leaning on that. And the Video Headroom Systems Baja feels indispensable. VH.S also has an envelope follower coming out, as @Vdot mentioned. There are LZX designs for these functions on deck, but we don’t have a timeline laid out.

DWO3 is a great LFO.

Syntonie Animate + Expander also looks amazeballs.

+1 on the Syntonie Animate & Expander combo although the Animate will go a long way too.
A Square output can be sent to a clockdivider to get fractions of the tempo/LFO speed too.

We have new voltage source modules in development. Lfo has been talked a lot. And gone through some very different at times panel concepts. Something more video rate will be happening first. Things that have been mentioned include easing curves. Phase relations. Timeline™️ vibes.

As far as lfo. Yea. It’s kinda like this.

Dwo. Benefits from static cv offset input for very slow stuff. Gives you all that video rate rizz. (Also hard to sacrifice a video rate to do lfo mode)

Syntonie. Gets you lfo only at price reduction from dwo. Ample waves and more with expander. Listed range is 100 seconds. Not sure if you can cv a higher voltage than 1v (normalled to cv input) for extra low low. 4 phases

Baja. Goes slowest with or without patching. Smallest footprint. Single waveform. 6 phases. Ribbon pwr only

I keep putting off Bajas because early simple translations to 5v weren’t instant success

Ease curves, phase, great things to consider. We do have good options in the audio realm, it’s just the voltage conversions that get in the way. Ornament and Crime Plus meets most of my needs, if I can just get the tuning right. If I can get a really precise 1-5V sawtooth into OCP > Hemispheres > VectorMorph, I can map that onto any function curve and phase. I imagine the newer, sexier versions of Disting would also go quite a ways down that path as well.

Anyway, it would be epic if some app-based digital CV magic made its way to the native LZX voltage standard. Custom function curves would effectively enable simple timeline operations, i.e. random access value mappings. (OCP Hemispheres does this) Add a CV digital delay line or two, and Bob’s your uncle. (Disting does this)

DWO is great, I don’t see it as sacrificing video rate to do LFO. I see it as a versatile option that saves rack space. Driving the FM input into negativland gives me all the slow LFO range I need.

any digital module with open source firmware - all mutable instrument except beads, and a lot of others, o&c - should be reasonably easy be update to use 0-1v instead of 5v…

mutable ones that I can think of that would be useful for video - ie mostly modulation would be tides (both versions), frames, peaks and stages

doesn’t really need huge amounts of coding skill either… just work out where the output values are being sent to the pins and adjust… and build and reflash… probably a bit hit and miss, at least to start with though…

… for someone with considerable relevant skill and experience

Changing the scale should be a trivial programming task. Greater changes have been made to the firmware for Mutable Instruments commands. As for updating, see the update instructions for the Parasites firmware.

However, I sold all my digital MI modules and I no longer have any space in the one cabinet in which I could cleanly power them.

I now use a pair of Sensory Translators as my “programmable” modulation sources. I feed them with sine waves with varying amplitudes, generated using CSound, tuned to the frequences of the Sensory Translator bands.

So much easier for me to program and update. I’m sure the technique could be adapted for Aural Scan and other sine wave sources.

indeed - the relevant skills: reading, maths, following instructions and a willingness to spend some time and effort…

no experience necessary…

it’s not like you need to become a fully fledged C++ programmer to do this… and once you’ve done one the others are more than likely exactly the same…

What’s the advantage of this vs. simply generating control voltages and outputting via a DC coupled audio interface?

I have no modules that can produce such complex signals. I usually want slowly flucturating CVs. While Marbles can generate 4 of them, it’s 18hp wide. That’s a lot of panel space for only 4 useful CVs! So I use a pair of Sensory Translators to get 10 fluctuating values. I can also generate any other complex signals, and they can change at any time. Even better, I can sync them with a video signal to get 3 video-rate CVs. I generate the video signals using FFmpeg, of course.

I’m now starting to experiment with more complex audio/visual generative techniques, This is done by writing code that generates filtergraph and/or command files (via the sendcmd filter) for FFmpeg, and score files for Csound. I’m also writing code to generatively edit the video in post-production. I may someday write more code to generate audio synched with the video.

Various examples of these techniques may be found via my Vimeo account.

I’m just saying, if you are good with Csound or whatever, something like Expert Sleepers ES-9 is a much more direct approach. Your use of fine-tuned sine waves through dual 5-band envelope followers is a clever approach. But you can easily just generate the control voltages directly. ES-9 is not cheap, and it “only” has eight outputs, but it is cheaper than 2x Sensory Translators, and I think it’s overall a better solution. I’m planning to go down that road eventually.

I have several problems with Expert Systems commands.

The first is that they’re not class-compliaqnt. Even using Windows 10, the driver didn’t work.

The second problem is that I don’t have space for a computer in or near my video rig. I might be able to set up a Rasperry Pi running Debian and Csound, but that would require a class-compliant soundcard.

So I use a pair of LZX modules instead. You can probably guess which video player I use to provide the audio and video.

Sorry this is drifting super far off topic. I’ve not had an issue with the driver for my ES-9 on Windows 10.

If you’re not using a computer, I don’t understand how you’re using Csound.

I use a computer running Ubuntu in another room. I use to create or prepare videos I can play into my video synth. The last time I used a computer and the synth in the same room was 2015.

You’re right, this is drifting off-topic. I was simply responding to Agawell’s post about custom MI firmware by describing how I avoided that. I’ve done that and said more than enough now.

#O&C
Ornnament & Crime at 1V

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Your settings may vary.
It depends a bit on each unit and their calibration.
That said, setting o&c to 1v is fantastic, I used it a lot before having the syntonie lfos.
Having weird waveforms in audio range oscillators and feeding them to diver is a simple and nice patch.

Interesting to read about Ornament and Crime’s 1v capabilities. I’ve got Zadar, and while it has some wild waveforms which can be skewed in interesting ways, it doesn’t sync to video rates from what I’ve tried so far.

What can take sync (my system is Visual Cortex-based) is Vermona’s uniCYCLE, and it’s already a lower peak-to-peak waveform at 5v instead of 10v like most audio euro oscillators. I can get it to do multiple horizontal lines, but only one vertical line will sync, effectively becoming a ramp. Fun to modulate its even waveform’s pulse width when it’s moonlighting as a horizontal ramp! (I asked and Vermona did not intend them for video use, thus hasn’t mentioned it in their materials, but they’re more versatile in practice if you’ve got an interest in both A & V.

Regardless, it’ll be some time before I’ve caught up with the Gen3 commands. I’m excited to see what will come next, and hope to see more “3 Patches” videos if they’re still making them.

I am curious to know what the downresing/upresing experience is with Chromagnon. Synthonie video delay/enhancer modules have caught my eye. Can Chromagnon output to these modules via composite video, then upres the resulting composite video back to 1080 60?

Seems like I would need another output module to export to the synthonie modules, then pass the result to Chromagnon for upresing.

I use the Hemispheres firmware for O&C, it’s like having two complete modules in one. And the Plum Audio version, O&C Plus, adds some indispensible options such as attenuverters, and the all-important +/-5V global switch.

I’ve done the 0-1V dance with OCP plenty of times; one of the apps is Attenuate / Offset. But that uses up one of the hemispheres. I’d rather use both Hemispheres for creative apps. Best to send the 0-5V outputs through a Cadet V scaler or a BSO 5:1… except, as I have lamented many times, the former requires DIY abilities and free time, and the latter is no longer in production.

Chromagnon can upscale or downscale, but only exactly once. It’s a single channel device. You can’t send CVBS out of Chromagnon, through some other boxes, back to Chromagnon, upscale, and output again.

So you probably need a TBC2 if you want to integrate those Syntonie glitch modules in an HD workflow. Or you could do everything in SD and upscale at the end of the chain, either with an HD upscaling device or in software.

Scopic Modular has a 2hp down-scaler available as well

Very cool. Any recommendations for lightweight upresing? Are there light weight modules for going to/from CompositeVideo and Component Video?

Oh yeah! I forgot about that. Thanks! A five to one voltage converter that’s actually in production! And only 2HP.

Not that I know of… it’s pretty involved from a technical standpoint. Either a full digital frame store, or an intricate analog scan conversion. Many HD mixers will automatically upscale to their chosen output format. There are also numerous legacy standalone scaler boxes from Extron and other manufacturers. And if you’re just recording, not doing live performance, you can always upscale in post using Premiere or whatever.

Hi! I have a vessel case with 2x capsule power. If I want to put some gen3 modules in this case can I power them via a daisy chain from the dc socket on the back of capsule power module(s).

I powered the system on and plugged a dc power cable into the capsule on the right side of the case and measured 11.95V on that connector with a multimeter so it seems good to go. I am using the 8.34A supply that came with the case.

If I put about 10 x gen3 modules in 2 chains of 5x modules daisy chained from each capsule on 1-5 fx pedal daisy chains, the load would be about 1A +12V on each chain . and for the remaining modules load will be approx. 575 mA +12V | 340 mA -12V on each capsule . thanks!

The combination of Capsule and barrel power in that case will make it very flexible for building a system. You can definitely plug a splitter into the DC outlet inside the case and power some Gen3 commands.

oh great, thanks chad !

Hello friends,
Have I missed any important updates in terms of Chromagnon shipments?

Thanks in advance. I suppose I can hunt down the most current schedule.
b4_H

We have been preparing an update, but have not yet sent out the newsletter. Soon!

Is there a list somewhere of the expedition modules with sync connections that will work at HD rate?

See also:

I have a question about the distant future, long after the Chromagnon saga.

I vaguely remember something about Automata instruments, specifically a texture voice. That and a line of new DIY commands. Are there any vague plans in those areas still?

I don’t know about Automata instruments for future release, but I recall that being talked about in the past too.

As for DIY, this module is currently available in built and kit form and seems to be a solid step into the future of DIY modules:

Oops, I hadn’t read the latest blog post. So the P Series [like the PGO] is the foretold DIY successor to the Cadet series. That’s awesome news!

Good Day,

For the record- Chromagnon has NOT shipped right? I’ve moved twice since I Bought it however many years now. 4-5 I take it. It’s hard to keep up. Thanks

hell yea. are there going to be any demo videos of the upcoming smaller modules?

We’ll be sending those along with ESG3, DSG3, TBC2 to Johnny Woods very soon, to do more 3 patches videos. It’s going to be hard to allocate a lot of time for demo production in house until the Chromagnon release, but we could do some live Q&A/patch streams that get archived. I will try to at least post some patch diagrams.

This is such great news @creatorlars, thanks for posting it
& someone’s already posted it to Discord where its creating an active conversation too.
Nick’s stream today was great yet I only caught the last 75 minutes or so. He did a quick Stairs & Staircase A/B (upon request which was damn nice of him considering he’d probably already done it earlier in the stream) & jez, what a difference! Gen3 is the bomb!!! Congrats

Thanks for the update! I’m happy to see you all completing your multi-year vision and am looking forward to… well, all of this!

Where does the big firmware update (Mem Palace, Diver, etc.) lie on the timeline?

I’m so interested in purchasing these first 3 commands. However, I have not done any pre order yet. So does that I’m out of luck on preorders being all filled and essentially I cannot order any units till q4? Or is the July run of shipments going to have a reserve of units that can still be purchased today???

Thanks so much!
-d

It might be worthwhile finding an LZX dealer near you, and enquiring if they have anything on pre-order that you could purchase.
Or maybe just wait until product is made and distributed then hunt down what is available in the market… less ambiguity with that approach.

TBC2 might not reach ready-to-ship inventory until Q4, but ESG3 and DSG3 should be in stock sometime this summer. I fully expect all three modules to be available somewhere online shortly after they begin shipping–either from private parties or dealers.

Definitely excited about a Staicase type module in Gen 3

Out of curiosity what is the price point going to be for these 5 new utility modules that you’re hoping to put up for sale this week?

Prices will be announced when the modules go up for sale this week.

What is the Keychain module?

KeyChain is 3 hard Keyers. Nick gave a cool demo of its style of output on the LZX Twitch account about a month ago but its not up there anymore. He used the Visionary TFKG module on a camera feed & it looked great!

Hey Pascal @meudiademorte, was it you who posted a link in the Discord recently to a Google Drive backup of some or all of the previous Twitch streams that Nick has done?

Here’s the said link:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16qsDG_v0OFGjhVoBNDxUiAmLb_q20qhf

Yws, i did a back up. Have to upload the last 2.

Thank you for this. I missed several due to a fluctuating work schedule and was bummed to think they were gone forever!

Happy to say that I’ve released a production version of the ESG3 firmware today, after spending the past week tuning the genlock input timings.

I should be able to say the same on DSG3 within the next few days.

I gave a video synth workshop here in Berlin this evening, Sunday 10th July, & it was nice to tell a couple of the participants, who pointed out that the Visual Cortex isn’t even on the Schneidersladen page anymore, with full confidence that ESG3 is imminent and the wait for an encoder is soon over.

It’s been a bit of a long week for us here – initial batch testing of 9 units of ESG3 on Monday uncovered a new clock crystal tolerance related issue. A couple units were outside the other unit’s lock ranges at their resting frequencies. We’ve got this resolved now it appears – but we are going to be testing for another day or two to be sure, before we can say we are done. Some of us are also out of office or sick right now, so I don’t think there will be any ESG3 going out this or next week.

Right now, it’s still looking likely we’ll be at a spot where we can start shipping them before the end of the month.

This week, we also added a test pattern generator mode to TBC2, so that we can have a native reference for 1V color bars. This is making the RGB calibration on ESG3 units very pleasant, as you can see from the below photo. We pulled out a Tek WFM90 vectorscope we’ve had lying around for ages, and are putting it to work.

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TBC2 firmware has been performing great, but I’m trying to get ESG3 out the door first (so that I have an output to evaluate TBC2 with other than Visual Cortex.) It was nice to see how quickly I could add the extra generator mode to the software engine, which bodes well for the speed at which we’ll be able to release new firmware extensions post-release.

dang, never seen a portable vectorscope like that before. cool stuff!

color bars end up being such a fun input to the video synth
glad to see it built in! otherwise it would have just ended up a still on our TBC2
hopefully some more people will take the time to really get to know chroma key on the memory palace with these bars

Yes, test patterns are great. I have a Kramer VGA downscaler that generates a test pattern when there’s no VGA input. As I usually have no VGA sources, I use it mainly as a pattern generator. It’s great when I need a complex pattern and I’ve run out of modules to patch something up - or I’m just feeling lazy.

Yes, especially if we are just rendering a still frame, it’s easy to have all kinds of software generators in TBC2. Here is the basic RGB ramps generator. All of this will get ported back to Memory Palace at some point.

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I think a development diary approach tends to work well for that! So I am going to try to keep this thread updated weekly and at any eventful milestones.

Forget if this has been shared before, but if anyone needs some down-and-dirty color bars (for fun stuff), a ramp + Castle ADC works great.

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Output:

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Just a technical note: That technique works well for 100% color bars, but most vector scopes will expect 75% levels (0.75V) for their calibration squares. In this case, since it’s TBC2’s DAC generating the RGB source, we can set a very specific RGB value for each bar – this helps in the calibration use case. Either method works, for a creative use case of course!!

(Is this funny? it seemed funny when I thought of it but by the time I completed it, it seems kinda dumb. I was originally thinking of Billy Idol but this had the text on it)

You’re not alone. I too have heard Sting singing “I want my TBCeee!” for quite some time.

Ha ha, I played live visuals at a gig last week & an older gentleman walked in during the soundcheck. When he saw my visuals, for some reason he mentioned this exact song
But it took us a while to think of the band name, funnily enough the album title came quickly to mind. I absolutely loved this song & video as a kid, as well as their other hit with some wacky video editing, “Walk of Life”

We had a quiet week this week, with steady ESG3 progress. Jonah tackled some pre-flight QA checks on the first batches of hardware modules while I iterated through firmware builds with lots of small tweaks – mostly related to the composite output’s subcarrier, and improving horizontal phase lock under all cases. That’s all looking great and it looks like we’ll be shipping some units soon.

This is a first time for us, doing a CVBS output with a locked subcarrier (previous encoder designs have used a free running crystal.) We’re using some of the PLL and DSP blocks in the Lattice iCE40LP5 FPGA to generate subcarrier clocks for NTSC and PAL. Since the PLL is based on the same 27MHz pixel clock used to generate the other sync signals: hsync, vsync, avid, etc, we can conform to broadcast standards for a locked synchronous subcarrier.

So in addition to the new HD modes, there is a substantial quality upgrade to this encoder in respect to the CVBS output, too!

When working on the VHDL code that compiles into the FPGA’s firmware, it can be a bit of a head shift compared to the C++ application code I’ve been writing for TBC2. It all gets compiled into real time logic, instead of processor instructions! I like VHDL a lot because you are describing a circuit, and so it feels natural to me. Here’s a process block that detects whether or not a sync signal is connected into the sync input jack, and also determines if the video source is interlaced:

process(i_clk)
  begin
    if rising_edge(i_clk) then
      s_clk_cnt <= s_clk_cnt + 1;
      s_csync_ff <= i_csync;
      s_csync_ff2 <= s_csync_ff;
      s_interlaced <= s_interlaced or not i_oddeven;
      if (s_csync_ff = '0' and s_csync_ff2 = '1') or (s_csync_ff = '1' and s_csync_ff2 = '0') then
        s_csync_cnt <= s_csync_cnt + 1;
      end if;
      if s_clk_cnt = 0 then
        s_o_interlaced <= s_interlaced;
        if s_csync_cnt > 0 then
          s_o_detected <= '1';
          s_csync_cnt <= 0;
        else
          s_o_detected <= '0';
        end if;
      end if;
    end if;
  end process;

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jesus, that scope shot is perfect

I had some phase and DAC scale corrections to make to DSG3 this morning, and our 10-bit ramp generators are now looking great.

Here you can see some timing discontinuities I needed to fix – vertical reset line is in the wrong spot, and the vramp resets at the wrong phase:

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Waveforms on the scope:

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Enjoying a DSG3+ESG3 mini synth/pattern generator!

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A couple quick shots in 1080p30 (excuse the moire):

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We’re now at a point where I’m personally satisfied with where we are on both of these modules, and would be happy if firmware shipped in this state – but I need to meet with the team on Monday to assess where we are before I start promising shipment dates. This is a very big milestone though, as it puts both projects back into the workshop/production team’s priority queue.

great to see such progress Lars - keep up the good work!

I took a break from ESG3/DSG3 testing to play with a couple new prototypes today (Keychain, triple hard key generator and Contour, triple differentiator). Here’s DSG3 → Keychain → Contour → ESG3 in 1080p30.

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thank you for all the recent communications! I’m super interested in seeing the panel layout for contour.

how has that seetec monitor been working out?

It is really nice to see this kind of progress happening

@creatorlars , thank you for sharing your progress.
I’m looking forward to using ESG3!
And I’m curious about the Expedition modules that works in HD workflow…
Can you tell us about the Expedition module(s) that obviously doesn’t work in HD workflow at this time?

In Expedition series only, I would be very surprised if you get these specific three modules to work outside of NTSC/PAL timings:

• Liquid TV

• Visual Cortex

• Navigator (X/Y positioning is likely fine but operating rotation without matched sync probably will give you at least a glitched line)

Everything else in Expedition that requires RCA sync should be able to sync to HD timings without a problem. If it doesn’t require sync, it just works in any of the timing formats.

LMH198x is what drives the Gen3 multi-format sync extraction but LM1881 sync extraction used throughout Expedition is surprisingly robust with HD timings. Different story for Visionary, Orion and Cadet commands.

Thank you for information.
I was also worried that the Expedition modules would be damaged by the HD workflow.
But the components and the circuits of the Expedition module seems to be strong.

Yes, this raises questions. So I’m also curious.

I love the Seetec monitor! It has CVBS & YPbPr inputs with loopthru (very handy if going to a recording/capture device afterwards) and supports all 15 of the Gen3 timing modes natively. There are a few versions, this is the rack mount one.

Contour is another 8HP utility module, following the same triple function layout as Keychain & Proc. The VC differentiator is the same architecture as Curtain’s, but uses only the high frequency range. Perfect for pulling edge gradients out of Keychain’s flat outputs. Or reversing that relationship, Contour into Keychain becomes an outline extractor with adjustable stroke width.

Keychain uses the very fast AD8564 quad comparator and looks very sharp in the HD modes.

We’ll be doing a multimode/2D VCF based on the DWO3 architecture and some sort of edge proc/luma enhancer later on. Contour and Keychain are meant to up the system’s ratio of base key/filter functions at a very high function-to-HP ratio (1 Filter/Key Gen per 2.67HP).

Oh, yes! I love all these filters and keyers. Thanks for the info.

Love to hear about some texture and filtering Gen3 options. I’m sort of curious if there is any preference for a Gen3 noise source being single dual or triple?

For a typical analog noise source, I think that one is probably enough. The idea of a noise source is to provide randomness across all frequencies at once – so you typically use filters to further shape the noise’s tone. So, I guess that’s my opinion: noise with different filtered outputs or noise with extra mult outs is probably more useful than a triple noise generator.

That’s kind of what I pictured for a noise source. the only reason to want more noise sources would be for chromatic noise, though you’d still want filtering for each channel.

Keychain is now available on the LZX site!
https://community.lzxindustries.net/t/all-about-keychain/4021

It was a busy week – the workshop built batches of the Keychain and Stairs modules as Jonah and I tackled a few ESG3/DSG3 issues that popped up with the progressive formats, and then focused on ESG3 QA/calibration. Today ended with around 40x ESG3 units calibrated and ready to go, and some of those are already in the mail.

I did manage to squeeze an easter egg mode into ESG3, because we had one position left on the 4-bit format select switch, it is 240p60 (262 lines/field NTSC progressive) – it should be a fun one to play with on some older CRTs. Currently my display will recognize it as NTSC on composite, but not on it’s YPbPr inputs.

Next week, we’ll get to review the latest DWO3 prototype, which was finished yesterday, and see if that module is ready for production as well. And I’ll be getting back to TBC2, which we’re hoping to get out the door shortly as well.

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Super stoked for my esg3

Yes, DSG3 and ESG3 firmwares were released earlier in this month, and both modules are in the shipping state.

Ed and I are in the middle of the TBC2 release sprint at the moment (this means the final list of tasks / bugfixes that need to be resolved before releasing version 1.) Compared to where we started 3 weeks ago, we’re over halfway through the list. I do not think it will take another 3 weeks to finish, though. DSG3/ESG3 QA & fulfillment tasks have been dominating my schedule, and this is the first week since my last update that I have been able to contribute most of my time to TBC2. I expect a couple more days of code, a couple more days of QA/testing, and then we’ll start sending them out.

So next week, I’ll check in again – I’ll either let you know that we are shipping, or that QA/testing is dragging out, and what’s up with that.

Having fun with some live upscaling of NTSC camera to 1080p30 in a feedback loop.

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this looks super fun! what kind of camera are you using here?
I’m so excited to see TBC2s coming our way!

Thanks to the LZX team for their hard work making this possible.

Thanks for the update!

Just checking in before I transition over to focusing on the holiday weekend (Happy Labor Day!)

I plugged the USB JTAG debugger tool I use for TBC2 development in backwards this Monday, and fried it. So I was without my debugger until Friday (when replacements arrived from Digilent.) So I wasn’t able to race to the launch day like I wanted – but I used the time to implement some more thorough input detection functionality for sync and video inputs.

Now TBC2 will auto detect the presence of the sync input and locks onto the detected format – additionally the inputs will auto detect the connector in use, so it’s no longer necessary to define any of that in the menu.

Additionally, I moved media loading to a coroutine that allows better monitoring of the loading state, and allows the video outputs to remain running while media loading is in progress.

Now that I have my debugger back in place, I can get back to wrapping up the project.

A shame you fried the JTAG tool but it’s great to read these upgrades you’ve been able to implement into TBC2, especially the sync detect & taking out that selection process from the menu
Having the same “no freeze when loading a new folder” coroutine on Memory Palace would be awesome. Surely this hasn’t been included on the recent 2.0.2 (perhaps mislabeled) upgrade, right?

Correct. The most recent Memory Palace firmware update took place at the end of 2021.

This is probably the 3rd or 4th time I’ve done it in the past few years! I usually have a backup. Not this time. I can develop without the debugger tool, but it involves building the firmware binary, transferring it over on SD card, and booting from SD every time I want to test a build. So it’s harder to do the more tedious bits that involve small tweaks you want to verify rapidly.

The current development path for Memory Palace is to develop the Mk2 firmware with a build that is cross-compatible with the Mk1 hardware (but SD modes only.) So I’m sure we will add this feature to Memory Palace Mk1, but that will come in parallel with Mk2’s development.

What camera is this, Lars? I’ve seen them around but never known what they are

Does this mean the eventual mk2 memory palace will do the HD timings?

That’s Nick’s camera. They’re called “Lipstick Cameras.”

Does this mean the eventual mk2 memory palace will do the HD timings?

Yes, part of the whole hassle of this generational upgrade going on is that all future development will support all 15 analog SD/HD timing formats. This is our “forever list” of video formats to support. So Mempal Mk2 will support all the same timings.

ffs… this means I’m going to end up having separate SD and HD racks. While MP’s functions are only accessible in SD, I’m happy to stay in SD. I won’t be able to resist an HD Mempal, but I’m too much of a horder to let go of the SD Mempal.

I’ve got a Vessel in the back of a wardrobe. A MP2 might finally push me to transfer all my SD syncing units into the Vessel, find a Vesa arm for it and mount it somewhere alongside a HD + everything else version of my existing set up. The quest for a good load-bearing and easily adjustable Vesa arm commences…

So whats up with the chromagnon? Whats the actual Status and are there any news?

After the TBC2 firmware is released, I’ll be able to resume work on Chromagnon. We are a very small team, and have to serialize our efforts. The reason we’re releasing new modules right now is so that we can survive as a business to finish the Chromagnon project, which has suffered long delays for more than a few reasons! We discontinued most of our product line when Chromagnon was announced, so it left us without a product catalog to survive on when the delays hit us. I’m looking forward to celebrating the TBC2 launch and being back on the Chromagnon track.

I got this to work on a Tektronix 650HR-C in RGB mode! My rescan setup won’t do it justice it at the moment but the scanlines look great in shape synthesis.

Can the manual be amended to show this timing is possible?

It’s 1111xxx1 for 240p60 in RGB colorspace.

EDIT: Here’s a halfway decent rescan and a rougher closeup so you can see both the aperture grill and blanked scanlines more or less more clearly. Those edges, though.

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Reminds me of when Apple killed FCP 7… glad we have modules available again now and LZX is still here.

This might have been asked already…but with TBC2, VC, Memory Palace, etc. is there a preferred Sync Master? I typically use the VC as master. Just wondering if TBC2 should be master in a setup with those modules or doesn’t matter keeping VC as master and TBC2 slaved too.

Not sure but one thing to bear in mind is that the component in on VC is not a TBC/FS so if bringing in multiple external sources is part of your workflow not having VC as LZX house Sync (master/parent) might make using that input more challenging.

All the Gen3 modules (including TBC2, Chromagnon, ESG3) with sync generator functions are crystal clocked sync generators with external sync capability. (So technically they are all time base correctors, but not all frame synchronizers!)

So there’s no advantage or disadvantage to which one you use as sync master. It’s just whichever module doesn’t have anything patched to the sync input jack.

There’s also no problems with continuing to use Visual Cortex as your sync generator either – it’s a very stable sync gen, with a similar architecture as Gen3 (a dedicated FPGA/CPLD generator running off a base 27MHz VCXO).

I would avoid using Memory Palace as sync generator – the earlier units had some issues, that were then corrected. But it doesn’t have as ideal of a sync transmission line as the Gen3 modules do.

Oh, you tease!

Nice, is my unit due for a tune up yet? I keep reminding you all, but keep getting ghosted by your work timelines. lol

Yes, the upcoming Memory Palace firmware will include a menu for image folder browsing. One of many improvements coming from the epic TBC2 firmware push.

Thank you!
Another question, it’s normal that with painting mode and directory with less than 64 frame and size<8mb sometime freeze and have some strange glitch? It’s because i use png?

Which firmware are you using? The upcoming firmware should be glitch-free.

I have fresh new memory with 2.0.1

I can’t wait for the new firmware

there is a max tot folders size? If i charge to much file it dosen’t start, raming blocking on charge screen

80 MB 32 folder

will this also be a push for diver?

From the Memory Palace User Guide:

Diver will receive new firmware at some point in the future.

This is the problem, i have 24 folder and no one is up to 64 images or with 2mb filesize

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i can provide the folders if ithey serve to replicate the bug

I don’t believe it has anything to do with the files. What is your sync source and routing?

visual cortex —> memory palace (in photo) ----> second memory palace

I tried even with no external sync but same error

I delete one folder and then it work…

Aha. If it works when you delete one folder, then you should proceed with that method until the next firmware is available. Do both Memory Palaces behave identically if you load them with the same media?

Yes they acting identical, thanx i ll wait the next firmware!

I suggest that mp should have a less noisy cooling fan.

Awesome about folders. Swapping folders during a live set is a real slow down, especially if you miss the one you want and have to go through them all again. Excited for a better system.

Yea me to!! I can’t wait to see the other upgrade to the system

Ok, why my memory can’t start with this set…

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qReT_0Y7tWXVu9q8iYUVyF7Kc4TNelR3?usp=sharing

I can’t figure out

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Maybe it’s a sync issue. My MP usually gets stuck on that screen when there is an issue in the sync chain. If your MP is at the end of the sync chain, then maybe check to see if the termination button is engaged.

Found the problem!

In V2.0.1 there is a limit to 1024 files.

Another suggestion it’s an effect for the loop of painting animation from the start

Hi, I’ve just got a Memory Palace from the rogue batch that popped up the other week. Yeah!!!. It’s on 2.0.1 and I have noticed that a lot of the text is black on a rich Sahara yellow background.
I’ve been finding that difficult to read because it is relatively low contrast. I find the white on black to be easier to read.
I appreciate that you might have made the choice because lower contrast is less jarring in dark performance environments. I also appreciate that any choice will not work for all eyes.
This isn’t a stopper for me. It just means that I need to grab a pair of specs, first, but that type of change would make my personal experience a bit easier (or maybe switch to a lighter shade of yellow).

Also, would you consider putting some subtitles on to the Johnny Woods MemPal videos to say what the equivalent V2.0.1 mode settings are? That would make it a bit easier to follow.

These are good suggestions.
I believe that V20 will have menu color scheme options (possibly customizable).
Also, there will be a V20 firmware walkthrough video (hopefully hosted by the popular J. Woods).
The next MemPal firmware will have to wait for TBC2 and Chromagnon completion, hopefully this fall.

i’m playing around in paint mode today on v2.0.1 and have run into a bit of confusion with the clear function which can hopefully be addressed in the coming update. according to the v19 thread here, as of v19 the clear button no longer clears the buffer. in v2.0.1, the clear button does indeed clear the buffer. which is cool! presumably re-implemented after complaints about the disappearance of such a useful function.

and now for the confusing bit: when i map the trigger input to clear and send it a trigger, nothing happens. or rather, something happens, but not the thing that happens when i press the clear button. using a trigger to activate clear only deactivates freeze if it is active, but if freeze is off the trigger does nothing. not sure if this is intended behavior or what, but it is quite confusing as there does not seem to be a voltage-controlled way of clearing the buffer completely. the only way to completely clear the buffer is with a manual press of the clear button when freeze is not active, or a double-press of clear when freeze is active (once to turn off freeze, once to clear the buffer).

even though this seems counterintuitive in my current patch i can see how this “clear freeze only” feature would come in handy. perhaps in a future firmware there could be an additional menu option when trigger is mapped to clear - one which toggles between “clear freeze only” and “clear buffer only” and “clear freeze + buffer” (1st trig clears freeze if active, 2nd trig clears buffer) modes.

Thank you for identifying that trigger mapping issue. Clearing the buffer by triggering Clear makes more sense than deactivating Freeze.

I would love to be able to select different output options for the Y output, such as

• the key’s alpha mask, or its inverse
• the luma of the input RGB
• alpha input passthrough
• animation-rate CV based on a selectable front-panel parameter. Seems especially useful for the X and Y position or parameters that can self-animate, such as Rotation/Hue/Center when Spin/Colorize/Scan are engaged.

sometimes when in warp mode and alpha keying with an external input the memory palace output flickers/stutters briefly and then the horizontal offset of my key is leftward shifted by approximately a quarter inch or more on my 24" display. power cycling once usually fixes it, but sometimes it requires multiple power cycles before the key displays properly. i am decoding an external source into visual cortex which is the sync daddy, and memory palace is the first sync baby.

I’d like to be able to save screenshots into a specific media folder.
This would be really handy for storing ramps that took a lot of crafting, or just for sharing the Memory Place output.

I’d like to see a -1v option on the CV ins (invert). I assume this would be trivial to make reality.

What is the current output resolution for the Memory Palace? Is it likely to be bumped up to HD or is that not possible due to hardware limitations? Will there be a run of Memory Palace again? I’d love to get one but they’re just impossible to find, new or used. I feel its exactly what I’m looking for and could replace a whole bunch of my outboard gear.

Memory Palace outputs the standard NTSC/PAL resolutions via both its CVBS and DVI-D outputs. HD resolution via the latter is being investigated. Memory Palace is will receive a design revision this year to allow it to share parts with TBC2 and Chromagnon, thus making production more efficient.

It’d be cool to have the gate/trigger input be assignable any button

This is the way it currently works. You can assign the gate/trigger input in the menu.

WHAT, no way! Well that’s perfect.

Where in the menu do you assign it?

System → Trigger
It’s so fun to be able to rhythmically trigger certain features.

Seems to be broken for “Freeze” - just turns freeze on and a second trigger doesn’t turn it back off. All the others work as expected, rad!

Least in my current patch (ghost mode, RGB, alpha, alpha)

Correct, that’s how Freeze works. Every time it is triggered it freezes the last two seconds in buffer memory. The Clear button releases the frozen frames.

Is there a technical reason that it needs to utilize a second “clear” button as opposed to just pressing it again to release? If not I have a feature request

Maybe I’m not understanding how freeze is used in a performance setting - I’d want to beable to trigger it on & off.

Edit: Oh wait I think I get it

Exactly! You want to freeze something and be able to scrub through the frozen frames until the next thing you want to freeze comes up. That way you can remain in the frozen zone. So your trigger input can let you grab sets of frames rhythmically.
Triggering the Clear button externally allows you to clear the buffer rhythmically.

Perhaps a future firmware could allow you to rearrange how Freeze and Clear interact, so you could freeze/unfreeze with a single trigger pulse.

here is our MP paint walkthrough the freeze/clear combo is fully explained here.

it makes painting patches so much better to have them broken apart in this way.

although I bet if long presses or double presses were implemented in software…it would be easy enough to operate it with just one button.

this is the kind of thing I’m super excited about doing when/if the software opens up for MP.

Ty 4 link - makes perfect sense, I see why they’re broken apart. Still be nice if could utilize that trigger for freeze- oh well, just have to use a CV - MIDI which I happen to have

Thanks for taking the time to explain Chad & Wednesdayday, much appreciated

I’d like a configuration option to be able to offset outputs by variable numbers of pixels towards the left.

When you do further analog processing on your outputs, they move to the right due to the time taken to get the signal through the circuit. If you are compositing based off luma or alpha, this can leave you with a drop shadow to the right. I regularly key off luma or alpha.

I see this with the Visual Cortex keyer and the Cadet Keyer. I haven’t tried the FKG3.
Due to the higher frequencies of HD, I’m guessing that this will be more apparent.
Maybe this could also be a worthwhile option for the TBC2 luma output.

Memory Palace could be adjusted to pre-compensate for downstream analog processing.

(at least, I think this is what is going on)

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Remembered during my set last weekend that the Scan mode I would really like to have more control over, or at least be able to set it much slower than now, and maybe set a range somehow. For now my workaround is just using an LFO CV input, but would be great if the internal scan mode was more usable.

Have you looked into the menu for that slider? You can set three ranges for the speed. If the slowest isn’t slow enough, maybe we can adjust those ranges in the next firmware.

I’m I right in thinking that a HD output on the MemPal would require a hardware revision for future releases and not available in a firmware update for current owners. Please forgive my ignorance if this an obvious question to everyone else.

Yes, I think you are correct. ESG3 or Chromagnon would be required for HD output from Memory Palace.

or maybe HD via the HDMI port?

I’m confused by this. If MP is potentially unable to sync to different sync timings other than NTSC/PAL, then the way you’d get it into HD LZX land would be through an upscaler, which appears to be either TBC2 or Chromagnon’s built-in TBC/upscaler.

How would ESG3 which is basically just a sync generator/encoder allow you to put Memory Palace into HD timing unless MP would be able to natively support those HD timings anyway?

Following the line of conversation, isn’t that what they were referring to?
That a hardware revision for MP to process HD signal would also need to be accompanied by HD sync gen

Thank you, I have a Chromagnon on order, so I can try it out when that arrives. I’ve come to video from eurorack, so a lot of concepts in the video signal chain/format etc are very foreign to me.

If I run Chromagnon into the MemPal via the 1v io, then it would be scaled down, right? If I run the MemPal into the Chromagnon then the Chromagnon will upscale? I couldn’t mix these signals together in a mixer, because they would be different standards right?

At the moment I’m only manipulating still images in the MemPal, via the sensory translator and a Hermod, so I still only really have a theoretical concept of processing video.

Check out what inputs and outputs are on Chromagnon. There are composite/component I/O and then 3.5mm LZX 1V I/O. The RCA jacks for the composite/component IO have the sync signal embedded within them. The LZX 1V signals do not–they are just wideband 1V signals with none of the additional video signals required for display on a device.

So with that in mind, there is no upscaling/downscaling involved if you are taking Chromagnon’s 3.5mm RGB outputs into Memory Palace’s 3.5mm RGB inputs. However, they must both be synchronous to each other on the same video format or your images will scroll. Chromagnon generates and syncs to 15 different video formats, ranging from SD to HD. What we don’t know yet from LZX is if Memory Palace will natively support syncing to video formats other than NTSC/PAL.

As an example of theory, let’s say that Memory Palace is ‘stuck’ at NTSC/PAL timings. It generates NTSC/PAL and can sync to external NTSC/PAL signals but no other formats. That doesn’t mean you can’t use Chromagnon and Memory Palace together. You would just set Chromagnon to NTSC/PAL and sync Memory Palace to it (or vice versa) and the RGB I/O between the two would work perfectly.

What could potentially be an issue in this theoretical scenario is if you want to have Chromagnon in 1080i30 video timing as your primary sync generator and then sync Memory Palace to it. Memory Palace, assuming NTSC/PAL only compatibility until it’s otherwise confirmed, would not be able to sync directly to a 1080i30 video format and the RGB outputs from Chromagnon into Memory Palace would scroll on the output.

To illustrate more, you could take Memory Palace’s composite output (or any NTSC/PAL signal) and feed it into Chromagnon’s TBC. Memory Palace would then be upscaled/downscaled to whatever Chromagnon’s video format timing is set to (assuming not NTSC/PAL). You would not be able to patch the RGB outputs from Chromagnon into Memory Palace or vice versa because they’re still not talking the same video timing format. If you’re monitoring from the encoder on Memory Palace here, Chromagnon’s RGB outputs into Memory Palace would scroll or just look like total nonsense.

The opposite in this scenario, i.e. plugging Chromagnon’s composite/component outputs into Memory Palace directly, isn’t possible because Memory Palace does not have an input amp / TBC / scaler. You’d want to use TBC2 in that case.

For the mixer bit, it entirely depends on whether you have scalers on its inputs. For instance, a V-4 absolutely will not take a 1080i30 signal but a V-40HD will up/downscale most common video formats in SD/HD handily. Does that answer your questions?

I’m sure we’ll hear more about whether Memory Palace can support other timings than NTSC/PAL at the time it’s confirmed. Other than that, we’re all just speculating.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this. It makes a lot more sense now. I wasn’t aware that the 1v signal didn’t have the clock embedded. I’ve always seen sync gen as the clock sync in audio gear, akin to a ‘pulse per quarter note’ etc, but you wouldn’t hear that signal in the audio. This is what I struggle with, but that’s probably me trying to force a concept in my head.

Thanks again anyway. Food for thought.

This has not been confirmed, yet. It will certainly be explored.

Thanks, I have been using the lowest speed “walk” setting for everything since I got my two. Double checked again yesterday. I think everything that has speed settings could using two more slower options, crawl and snail. Very slow movement is great with MP and for now I can only use external modulation for finely controlled slow speeds.

Still think being able to set a range on the internal scan function would be great too. Using external cv and the cv input control works well for doing ranges for now though.

Would love it if Reflect and Mirror mode would do proper order of interlacing. It adds nasty stair steps to anything that is reflected or mirrored upside down at the moment due to flipping the interlacing improperly. See it in this video, you can see the image smooth on the normal, and stair steppy on the reflections.

NEW UPDATE 2.0.2 [ products/eurorack_modules/orion_series/memorypalace/firmware_v2.0.2.zip at master · lzxindustries/firmware · GitHub ]

@creatorlars “This one includes some fixes for progressive processing modes, and hopefully resolves” the above issue.

Is there a change log anywhere?

It’s not a major release – a couple fixes, some resolution enhancements, and a new progressive mode (which should help with the interlacing artifacts)

v2.0.2 Change Log

• Increased resolution on vertex calculations
• Added progressive warp mode
• NTSC underscan fix
• Max file and directory count fix

So no more limit 1024 file?

20 characters of thank you for this.

So no more limit 1024 file?

This fixes a crash caused by having too many files on the card. It does not add extra frames to the amount of available memory.

Can you explain what the progressive mode does?

It relates to whether we are processing the NTSC/PAL frame (720x486) in the recursive loop or the NTSC/PAL field (720x243, with odd lines processed before even numbered lines.) If you have a naturally interlaced source like a camera, or an LZX system, you want to be processing the fields, otherwise interlacing artifacts end up in the feedback loop. But if your source is progressive (like the image loader), interlacing artifacts are introduced by field rate processing. So it’s nice to have both options.

Image loader is my main workflow, so this is amazing, thank you! Also curious to test if the seams are missing from input now due to the under scan fix, today is the day!

Unfortunately all the interlacing issues remained after installing v2.0.2RC1 found on the above GitHub link @creatorlars

Tests confirmed that the same stairstepping error seen above appears when using Y mirror, and Reflect modes. Both on image loader only source, and from a Vidiot input only source. I have captures from the DVI-D/HDMI output and can upload if needed.
Seams on Vidiot NTSC input also remain, but uncertain if that was an issue covered by under scan fix.

I noticed the boot.bin file was timestamped December 2021, maybe a newer one needs to be uploaded?

Is this issue DVI-D specific, or are you seeing it out of the main outputs as well?

I noticed the boot.bin file was timestamped December 2021, maybe a newer one needs to be uploaded?

No, that’s when the version was released. We needed to test before posting, which we did – but everything’s been so busy we forgot to post it until now!

Yes @creatorlars I just tested this as well. I see the interlacing error in the cvbs 1 and 2, and s-video out as well with image loader and input. Though it’s a little less pronounced in s-video. Darn better luck next version

I’m trying to update to v2.0.2
But when I try to extract/unzip the files, i get the error
unable to expand “BOOT.bin”. It is in an unsupported format

Any ideas? Have I missed something?

Are you trying to unzip the file, BOOT.bin?
You shouldn’t need to unzip a .bin file. You only need to unzip a .zip file.

ah, I was being thick.
Looking at the .pdf guide I expected multiple files - I can see now they’re stills & json folders and the boot.bin!

Cheers!

I’d like an Aux mode that is a post process brightness boost and attenuator.

Sometimes you don’t want a lot of feedback repeats, so you control that by pulling down the contrast. The problem is, that leaves you with a dim image out of the MemPal.
You could bring this back up to desired levels with this Aux boost.

Maybe it would be possible to also use settings below 50% to attenuate the image, so that you could see detail in some of the blown out areas at the expense of some of the areas that are typically visible (they would tend towards black).

@creatorlars Would it be possible to get options for 5v (and -5v/+5v), and maybe even 10v scaling for the VC inputs? I know that was included in earlier firmware versions, but not the recent ones. Since these inputs don’t run at video rate (or audio rate, far as I can tell), I typically find them happiest with relatively slow mod sources (i.e. 5v audio modules).

@giantmecha

I think 10 V scaling is impossible due to the limitations of all LZX power.

But 0-5 V and +/- 5 V should be an option for any digital computer like Memory Palace.

I love getting feature requests for features already present! You can find the +/-5V, 5V, +/-1V and 1V settings in each slider’s detail page. They used to be on a global settings page, but moved to the individual parameter options.

I think it would change the feedback behavior to do this. You could use a gamma or curve processor in your patch to bring up some areas of low contrast. Gamma control in the feedback loop or as post-process in module is something we’ll consider in the future.

just moving from v18 to v202. everything is ok and menu navigation is more intuitive in my feeling and new features & bug fix are great <3 .
but, on v18 I was working with the alternate keying control : keyWhite/keyBlack instead of width/center,
on v202 I can’t find this feature. Did I miss something, did it disappear or am I confuse…?

It is the same, but selected differently in the menu. Choose LUMA as the key mode in the PARAMS menu.

not sure i am fully understood, luma key is ok then width & center sliders act as named, but I preferred the old alternative assignment when “width” become +key (white ‘top window’) and “center” become -key (black ‘bottom window’). Now I’m doubting on my memory, did I dream this feature?
Actual version = 2.0.2RC1

The function is the same, using width (the width between the top and bottom key on one slider) and then setting where that width falls on the grayscale spectrum using the center control. The result is identical, but achieved in a slightly different way, using the sliders. I can see how setting the top & bottom (and thus the range and center) like you were used to makes more sense visually, looking at the sliders on the panel.

ok, thank you. so it was a fantasy in my mind or an alternative early firmware (v18 from an early batch MP : 2018 ; s/n 0071).
I oftenly work on analog feedbacks (camera and signal) and I feel it’s more comfortable to work with key+ / key- controls for live ‘sculpting’. I don’t wanna risk to turn back to v18 to see if I dreamed that, last update was tricky and v202 is really great…
Cheer’s

Been looking around the forum spaces. Is there a timeline for the firmware updates? I know the roadmap is always changing.

There’s definitely not any specific timeline to any firmware updates. They’re released as time permits/projects prioritized. Right now we’re hoping for some TBC2 updates then MP.

Having the option to switch from width/center to top/bottom would be awesome (as I would find the latter more intuitive too).

We need to get Memory Palace back into production with mk2, so new development (including updates for mk1) will be attached to that project. Chromagnon / TBC2 projects need to be wrapped up before we go there.

I’ve got MP for a little over 2 years now and still use it in almost all of my patches.

A suggestion for a new firmware release from me would be a new mode: vector.

It would be amazing to use the software to create a vector-synth like RGB infused moving image processor with composite out.

For the rest it’s already surpassed all my dreams

Would love it if the interlacing error in Y mirror, and Reflect modes was fixed asap, shows up in all my / our MP works… love those modes.

@Dr_Rek

Would love it if the interlacing error in Y mirror, and Reflect modes was fixed asap, shows up in all my / our MP works… love those modes.

Answer from @creatorlars

That’s just a byproduct of interlaced video running thru a texture mapper. So a change would be a new feature rather than a bug fix.

It’s an error in the way the system mirrors interlacing, not a bug. Looking forward to the fix in 2035

Memory Palace V2.0.2 is now available. The update adds a screen saver to help prevent screen burn. GitHub - lzxindustries/firmware: LZX Industries Firmware Downloads

Thanks for releasing the update! Just installed and no issues !! I noticed the best way to remain on the current page after the screen saver goes black screen is to just use the arrow keys.

I’m having some trouble updating to the newest firmware.
Loading direct through the usb port made everything unreadable and the device could no longer boot.
I then removed and wiped the sd card and copied the new files. It’s running the old firmware (2.0.1) and selecting Update Firmware from the menu does not work and restarts the device.
Thanks for the help!

There is only one file required, named BOOT.bin. Whether you are using the SD card or the USB connection, be sure to remove the old BOOT file before copying over the new one. Select “update firmware” in the menu and choose the location of the new BOOT file. Once that process is complete, restart the module (from the System menu).

Got it to work; thanks!

Would the H/V mirroring now be possible with Arch?

Yes it would! But you’d need two mirror functions (for H and V separately, before combining them.)

So my main reason for wanting Shapechanger is to spin a shape. What would be the signal path to use Arch and achieve this.

Something like this

H Ramps >Arch > Bridge Mixer > Navigator
V Ramps > Arch >

You’ve almost got it! Like that, but with Navigator between Ramps and arches. The patch above would give you double mirroring on the input to Navigator.

You can also use Staircase to do mirror function, but may have to tweak it a little to dial it in.

3 of the 4 functions in Arch are patched out utility block versions of some of the Shapechanger circuitry!

I tried by using Staircase for the second H mirror and was able to spin things!!! Still need to tweak some more but will share some notes over the weekend. I may need to head out and grab a second Arch.

I’m using doorway to try and scale but looks like I’m missing the ability to skew the ramps from what I’ve learned from watching videos of how Shapechnager behaves.

What I’m looking to do at its simplest is have a white diamond shape spinning 360” set against a black background.

Would this be possible without the scale and skew functions of Shapechanger?

what is the analog function of the mirror? just wondering what it does to the signals… if its just rectifiers or something else?

It is an absolute rectifier (very fast, with video opamps and high speed schottky diodes) but in a frequency doubling configuration. So the input signal as 0-1V is scaled to +/-1V so that it will slice right in the center. The rectifier then slices positive/negative portions and inverts the negative portion to give 0-1V on output, but at double frequency.

Yes you can get a white diamond rotating that way! You will want to run H/V ramps into Navigator, then essentially you are doing a sawtooth to triangle (frequency doubler) conversion on the outputs. You can use Arch to do that or Staircase (at low frequency settings, you want 2X). Basically you are converting the sawtooth ramps into triangle ramps AFTER the rotation. Then you mix them (a crossfader works well for this, and gives you something similar to the skew control) and then you key them (using Doorway or Cortex) to get the flat shape results.

Hello,
so if navigator doesn t spin a shape, wath exactly does it do ?.
thx

Navigator does spin the shape but from my understanding the mirrroring needs to take place after which is why I’m using Arch as a replacement for Shapechanger.

Navigator rotates the XY dimensions of the “scene” that the shape is created within.

Some spinning things.

Patch notes.

Screen Shot 2018-08-11 at 21.08.01.jpg2085×1050 816 KB

More spinning shapes.

Patch notes.

modulargrid_42542.jpg1151×754 207 KB

Even more

I’ve been waiting a long time to get this technique down so please bear with me sharing lots of experiments.

Patch notes to follow.

Patch notes.

Screen Shot 2018-08-25 at 17.37.14.jpg2207×1157 892 KB

This is the patch for the videos above but if you were to remove Navigator you would still achieve the same look. Also im using one Staircase and one Arch. A cheaper route would be to use 2 x Arch. If you were to use 2 x Staircase that would up open up a world of variation but would be a bit more expensive.

The videos basically show the same patch but with different levels of mirroring switched on. Spinning shapes 1 shows the patch with all mirroring switched off. The only mirroring is whats taking place via arch and staircase to draw the shape. The rest of the videos show different combinations of the mirroring options on VC ramps and Navigator switched on.

More variations. Similar kind of as patch as before.

I didn’t get round the grabbing a second Arch but its on my wish list. I had filled my current case and only just started setting up a second case for new stuff so now can start planning to expand.

Would Arch bring a lot to a setup that already has Shapechanger in terms of bending and shaping things?

Yes for sure. Arch is my favourite module by far. Can get a world of shape variations of out when using ramps. Also processing control signals can get some amazing results.

Cool! I’m having a bit trouble understanding logic stuff in video synthesis. I just got the multi gate and love it but I guess arch is doing something entirely different to the signal.

I got Photoshop 3.0 at 8 years old and it’s been a continual source of inspiration! A lot of the work on Expedition series is from looking at the way computer graphics evolved from analog computing, and then figuring out ways to do the next level of analog by emulating a lot of the computer graphics workflows. For example, Shapechanger + Navigator perform a lot of the same math you’ll find in any 2D graphics engine, only they do it with analog computing circuitry. Marble Index (and Cortex Compositor) perform a lot of the same blending modes math you’ll find behind Photoshop or more robust digital compositing suites, only they likewise do it with analog circuitry. Most of the design challenge has been on how to take these functions and present them in a patchable hardware way, UI wise, and design analog circuits that do the math.

Arch is my favorite too, You should see what you can do with four

Speaking from experience, the best way to augment MP is with a solid analog synthesis setup behind it. It is a ground breaking module, but to truly exploit it’s power feed it the best material. It will do really cool things with live video input and still frames, but IMO where it really shines is as an integral part of diverse system. That said, you can do some awfully cool stuff with just a Vidot and an MP

And now I’m completely off topic

Even though I have a Shapechanger, these patches are very educational. Thanks!

Yes, thanks! Every little trick helps. I’m at the stage now where I’m looking for new layers to add to a patch, and I’ll look to any modules that are as-yet-unused-in-this-patch to do this.

Big bump!

I’m playing about trying to rotate some shapes with mostly 4HP Cadet and other DIY modules, does anyone have a nice block diagram for simple shape rotation?

I’ll draw up a diagram in a minute.

I don’t know who did these or recall where I got them (probably here), but I have some useful images. I’ll see if I can upload them.

[EDIT]

Sorry, every upload attempt fails.

Ahh, yes. From another forum, years earlier, a diagram of basic Rutt Etra. Now I need to find the source for the other image, a diagram illustrating the rotations using phase quadrature.

Note that there are some exceptions – for example, the “CROSS” switch on Navigator inverts one of the Sin/Cos outputs, so that one output rotates the opposite direction from the other (creating a kind of perspective morph rather than a rotation.) In other words, there are lots of fun ways to patch it up, which are similar to but not the exact same as the textbook rotation formula.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIAkBDlhfxZ/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

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That is just one third of the patching required to do it!

Cheers @sprthhfk for posting the 2nd picture in particular. I was aware of the first & I found that it helped or worked but was a lot of modules just to perform a rotation, especesially how the Prismatic Ray was used.
The 2nd image makes so much sense but if someone doesn’t have an Arch, the top right corner (2x recitifier) can be done with a Syntonie VU-002 or Staircase just dialled a fraction. But how about the top left of Arch? It’s the min output function under the two inputs.

The prismatic ray is not necessary for the basic action of spinning a shape. The patch notes i posted were showing how to recreate the effect in the videos i had posted along with them.
You can remove the final part of the patch after arch and bridge for a basic spinning shape patch. The Prismatic Ray was just used for the spinning lines that were overlaid over the main spinning shape part of the patch.

Cheers for clarifying that @destroythings
I was just gotten a bunch of Expedition modules at the time I tried it so I most likely messed up a part of the patch before it hit the Prismatic Ray.
I’m glad to see you’re still on here & that this thread you created is still relevant & of interest to people on here
I’m still minus a Shapechanger so it’s most definitely relevant to me

I’m very happy with my UltraStudio Mini HD for capture, but it needs additional converters to get analog outputs. It has two output channels for RGBA graphics (RGB + A.) I’m planning to experiment with sending full alpha channel motion graphics from the PC to Memory Palace (which has alpha channel input.) This should be lots of fun.

If you want to capture via Memory Palace’s DVI-D output, you will get the native quality of the A/D converters used in that module – in other words, 24-bit RGB in LZX native format! And you can use a much cheaper capture/recorder, like this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892453-REG/Blackmagic_Design_bdlkulsdzminrec_Ultrastudio_Mini_Recorder.html?ap=y&gclid=Cj0KCQjww8jcBRDZARIsAJGCSGtoOGm3DWLmXxPpw18KJ4vv9sXSRP3FUx4lfskND18vN3e4lU6iMMcaAk-tEALw_wcB&smp=y

@DesertMuseum Well if the Memory Palace output is what you want to capture, yes. The DVI-D will be the output in its native buffer format. If you want to capture your analog patch use a capture device with 10-bit YPbPr capture like Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle.

I’m brand new to all this but enjoying the research. Does the USB port on the TBC2 mean that TBC2 can act as a capture device / output device similar to what I expected from the Blackmagic shuttle?

I caught the bug from a copy of Lumen. Have been considering the jump into either a Vidiot or small system based around Visual Cortex. If the TBC2 is a capture device, the that might make more sense for me than the Shuttle.

I’m sorry, TBC2 is not a capture device. We recommend Intensity Shuttle for capture/recording, but I prefer the UltraStudio Mini HD personally, it’s a bit more stable in my experience (but requires Thunderbolt 3 interface.)

Glad to have you and thanks for the question.

I am a big fan of capturing output on a dedicated device versus using a computer (w/Intensity Shuttle) for capture. I do use the Intensity Shuttle to output video into the LZX system.

If you look for slightly older standalone recorders you can usually find them with Component Video I/O so you don’t need to buy any conversion boxes in line.

http://www.ambery.com/dihddvivgaco.html I was just looking at this one it seems like it is pretty decent
there is some room for growth from component output to having a scaler
ambery seems to be a pretty trusted place as far as video stuff goes

Related to this: what’s a good standalone composite->HDMI converter?

A lot of the broadcast converters use SDI as the basic standard, so there are a ton of options if you look for Composite/Analog to SDI and then SDI to HDMI. If you want upscaling that sometimes requires another box. For example in my studio I have Analog to SDI -> UpDownCross -> SDI to HDMI for this (all Blackmagic Mini Converters.) I believe Atomos sells one that does Analog to HDMI with scaling. A dedicated rig is very useful and highly recommended.

The use case is playing out at live shows: the house projectors at places around here usually have just a HDMI cable and no easy way to run anything else to the ceiling-mounted projector.

I am a big fan of the Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini HD for capture to a computer, but don’t always have it set up (read: did not plan ahead :P) when the video gods are smiling. For quick jams and avoiding “I wish I had recorded that” syndrome, I love having a dedicated recorder. My workflow is largely SDI, and I use a Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle SSD recorder for “standalone” capture. It also doubles as an HDMI capture device/cross converter. It has a built in battery (ALWAYS ready to record, even if you run out of outlets/forget the AC adaptor!) and is built so solidly you could use it for self-defense. Dedicated recorders have the advantage of also being dedicated PLAYBACK devices. It opens up a lot of additional flexibility for live performances.

Even if you don’t have a lot of SDI gear, I’d still recommend one. The Blackmagic “whatever”->SDI mini converters are VERY reasonably priced.

I can second all CountFunkula’s comments on the Hyperdeck Shuttle. Totally solid and always ready to record. Mine sits under my monitor. The mini converter sits under the synth. I edit on a computer in another room. The internal battery means it won’t lose anything if the power suddenly goes off. It’ll always have time to save the last frame.

Are all of the $30 usb -> component “digitize your old VHS tapes” dongles on Amazon total garbage? Are there any that are reliable?

You definitely won’t get professional results with them. It’s like being in a band when you’re a kid… you can use the cheap amps and cheap guitar and still write awesome songs, though.

Makes total sense. Are there any that are at least so so? I’m not ready to buy a black magic product but I did recently get a sweet vcr from goodwill.

UPDATE: I picked up a webcam. Pointing the webcam at the television is easier for me at this stage, plus it ends up looking kind of cool.

Lately, I’ve been live streaming my video explorations and performances. Live streaming would not be possible with a stand alone device. Using OBS (open broadcaster software) one can stream and/or capture to disk, even multiple sources. Works great for tutorial type videos. So typically I use a Canopus and Intensity Pro card at the same time to stream- PiP or switching sources. But, I’m pretty settled in and don’t play out much.

Aja Helo will stream and/or record without a computer.

Of course that exists! Thanks for the correction

AJA HELO is a great addition to the mid level encoder world. Super stable. Front panel controls vs all browser controls.

Best in category!

Hi hi,
I hope I’m asking this question in a way that isn’t too redundant, or has been already answered. In anticipation of the memory palace’s arrival:

Are there any drawbacks to using a run of the mill dvi-d to HDMI adapter (link to example below) before going I to a recording device (like hyperdeck shuttle ssd) - and out to a monitor?

I 'm all about the high quality conversation from analog to sdi, but my wallet can’t take that big of a hit right now. At the same time, I’m trying to get a recording of a higher quality than can be achieved by USB dongles.

Interested to hear your thoughts on wheather something like this would play nice with memory palace:

DVI-D and HDMI carry the same information. They are just a different connector. HDMI is a more expensive connector. So, the adaptor should be fine. According to the MP page LZX will supply the MP with one.

“DVI-D/HDMI video output supporting 480p/576p SD progressive output. DVI-D to HDMI connector adapter included. [ Designer Note: We plan to enable other output video format options on the DVI-D connector.]”

About the Hyperdeck: At this point the MP looks to only output 480 progressive. So it is de-interlacing the incoming interlaced signal that you are feeding into the MP. It is not scaling to 1920 x 1080. So just confirm the Hyperdeck will accept that format.

If you want to upscale to 1080 you need the Hyperdeck to do that in your proposed signal-flow. You would need to confirm that it can do that as I am not too familiar with that particular product.

so I’ve just received a hyperdeck shuttle!

at first I tried simply sending it a feed from my switch via an ambery vga/component => HDMI transcoder (I don’t believe it is being sold anymore can’t find any info)

no luck well some luck as you can see the whole image is green

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at this point some of you probably already know what the issue was

so I tried the component out from the LZX rig through the ambery transcoder again just a green version of the lament configuration

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I did some research and found that the hyperdeck is expecting the HDMI source to be YUV video not RGB so I had to start looking at all the manuals of my devices to see what would allow for going from RGB component to HDMI YUV

my first thought was to use the BMD intensity shuttle
while it isn’t a practical setup unless I was wanting redundant video recording (one to computer and one to SSD) I still wanted to see if it would work

and it did good news! (the source this time from a VHS player into a V440 mixer out via the s-video program output)

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ultimately I’d like to be able to record to send video out from computer (intensity shuttle) and record straight onto a SSD (hyperdeck shuttle)

so I have a couple extron scaling boxes I bought for around $20 each off ebay and while looking back through the manual one stood out as it would happily change the colorspace from RGB to YUV via its on screen menu system

the one I ended up using first worked so I didn’t end up trying the others yet extron RGB-HDMI 300 A (i think “a” allows for 1/8 stereo audio input alongside the component/VGA input and even has some audio delay built in for proper lip syncing!)

so I went out with component from the LZX rig => a component to VGA adapter => the extron 300 HDMI box => the hyperdeck shuttle => the viewing monitor

I know this is a big rambly but I’m hoping that somebody will find it useful

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If you have an old PC or MacBook, a cheap Video Capture device like the Digitnow (22.99€ from Amazon) seems to work fine.

Initially I was considering Blackmagic and Elgato, but I’ve read mixed reviews about the results using MacBook Pro and USB-C, and didn’t feel like throwing 150€ just to see if one of them works for me.

I doubt this Digitnow would run on my MacBook Pro, but for less than 25€… In any case, I was thinking in using the MacBook Pro for sending video, Lumen, etc., into the Visual Cortex, and the old Mac for recording.

The quality seems pretty good. If interested, I could list the codecs included and the maximum resolution. In any case, way better than my up-to-now attempts at recording from the TV (which included multiple unwanted reflections, knocking the camera off a few times, and the “textures” one gets from filming from TVs… though they also have their charm). Anyway, for now it’s just for fun, to record some experiments with the Visual Cortex. I have no illusions of becoming a Pro anytime soon.

What about HDCP issues (s-video to SDI:To HDMI) ???
I tried a Ninja Flame without luch due to HDCP problems with upscalers from s-video to HDMI…

Thanks for the recommendation! I picked up an Extron 300A and I’m just waiting for it to arrive now. I’ve a similar setup to what you explain - Macbook > Intensity Shuttle > Visual Cortex > Hyperdeck.

I’m really curious about the audio delay feature. I find that my digital content, when it reacts to audio that I feed it, is fast to react (for example to an input sound triggering the opacity of a shape), but by the time that image is sent out of the shuttle, there’s some delay. So I’ve wondered for a while if there was some device I could get that would delay the audio that is heard, just a little. So that it matches the video.
If this will do that it’s gonna be amazing!
Plus I can record at a higher resolution, which is of course the main objective.
Excited!

so the Hyperdeck will then record video and audio both from HDMI?

I don’t think I’ve tried audio and video recording together much yet I always get too distracted by the video system to get the audio stuff up and running and hooked up

Man. Get some audio triggering things. It’s insane
Sensorary Translator all the way

Just trying to get the Extron upscaler working. What settings do you use on the input / output?!

Panic over. Sorted. 50Hz seems to be good, and as for resolution, scaling it is a little fiddly, but then I got it nice and saved to user preset. All good

@creatorlars do you capture 1080p (over 1080i or smaller resolutions than 1080) from the Hyperdeck Mini?

I’d imagine you capture progressive here rather than letting software convert to progressive later, but I’m very curious!

I’m mainly thinking about the following workflow: Visual Cortex -> an Analog-to-SDI converter -> Ultrastudio Mini HD or Hyperdeck Mini.

Question about Cortex capture through ATEM Mini Pro:

I have a Blackmagic ATEM Mini Pro which records to a USB drive. It’s great but only takes HDMI inputs. I’ve been doing capture from Cortex S-Video -> V4-EX -> ATEM Mini Pro recently which has been adequate – but I’m realizing is subpar because

• I’m using S-Video not component out of the Cortex
• V4-EX internal processing is SD-based at 480p/576p Progressive.

I’m considering trying out Visual Cortex capture via component output -> BM Analog-to-SDI -> BM SDI-to-HDMI -> ATEM Mini Pro, but I don’t have either of those converters right now and I’m not sure if this would be a recommended route. While this seems like a long train of cables, but this actually seems like exact same train required for the Atomos Ninja-2 (replacing the ATEM) that is recommended in the LZX capture Youtube video. That makes me think this may be a plausible solution for quality capture. I’d rather switch to a standalone capture device in the future, over the ATEM Mini Pro, but perhaps it will hold up better than I expect for capture quality!

Well it seems like the Intensity Shuttle days are over. I’ve upgraded to an M1 Mac and Blackmagic’s Desktop Video Software does not support the TB Intensity Shuttle (the USB Intensity Shuttle was end-of-life’d a while before). It’s a real pity since it was the ideal device for video input and output from my Mac (albeit in fairness, not at the same time ). I’m going to sell my Intel Mac since otherwise the M1 is just so superior, but I’m going to need to figure out another way to get video in and out. I’d prefer component of course.

Any ideas out there?

The EASYCEL component to hdmi converter on Amazon is $35, way less expensive than the other options. That option will not output 1080i though, and has some mixed reviews. I picked up two of their hdmi to component converters in anticipation of TBC2. I’ve been using a thunderbolt intensity shuttle, but was considering an analog to sdi converter to go into the decimator for an hdmi output, and I think that’s the best upscale option. I’ve gone decimator to sdi-analog to get content into the system, but haven’t had the need to pick up the analog-sdi converter yet.

Hi dear LZX geeks

I’m still in the journey of finding a relatively cheap, computerless, but proper way to capture my video synth
I’m trying to avoid the SDI to HDMI converter so here’s what I end up to :
Blackmagic Mini converter Analog to SDI to a (second hand) Atomos Samuraï with SDI IN
Anyone using this combo ?

I’m using an Atomos Ninja to capture and Lars is so right. It captures in a lossy codec resulting in artifacting and dull colors. Here’s an example of capturing on the Ninja MP4: https://www.instagram.com/tv/COL2m0ThPbo/?igshid=160ru27f1dll

I will always love my screen recorder. I downloaded it on Joyoshare. It helps me save streaming movies and virtual meetings in high quality with no watermark, no latency, and no time limit. Amazing and easy to use.

Anybody working with blackmagic media express? It won’t let me capture in 1080i60,only625i60.I’m using the intensity shuttle and a 2014 imac for recording.

Capturing at that res is what I do. The Shuttle doesn’t upscale on capture…if you’re gonna upscale, best to do it in software anyway IMO

Hi everyone! Based on this thread, I bought a Blackmagic Analog to SDI converter and their Hyperdeck Studio HD Mini. It’s nice to be able to get analog video in my computer again for the first time since I went to an M1 Mac (pity I vowed never to buy anything from Blackmagic again after they discontinued support for the Intensity Shuttle almost immediately after I bought it and that didn’t work out).

It works well, but it has problems when I connect my Vidiot to my Visual Cortex. Since I can see the video generated on my LiquidTV, sync should be established, right? But the little screen on the Hyperdeck Studio flashes on and off and it has trouble syncing up.

Any ideas?

Problem solved. It had been a long time since I’d used the Vidiot. I needed to have the sync originate on the Visual Cortex not on the Vidiot. That took care of it.

Love seeing the development process. It helps me understand better how to use these wonderful tools as I can see the design goals, the issues, and the solutions that lead to the final product.

I’m paying attention to the people behind the curtain! Thanks for peeling it back a bit for an insiders look. So excited for this next phase of Orion!

Thank you both! I’ll keep posting these. You know earlier this year we were talking a lot about the type of promotional content we wanted to be part of our company. And it all came back to all the early inspiration we used to get from Behind The Scenes features on old VHS tapes, or educational specials. The Reading Rainbow episode where Levar Burton takes us to the set of Star Trek: The Next Generation being a huge one for me personally. For @eyesnoface I know it was a love for practical effects, mask making, horror fan magazines, etc. We feel like marketing can be a little forced sometimes, but showing what we’re actually doing – nothing could be more honest than that.

Today I’m continuing to refine the interface PCB, optimizing traces and polygon pours.

Here’s a screenshot of something you don’t normally see, one of the internal layers of the PCB! (This PCB has 4 total layers, two internal and then top and bottom facing.)

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The colored polygons are different power planes that distribute power to various points on the board. Planes like this have very low impedance and help with controlling noise/crosstalk.

It also looks pretty!

OH BABY BABY

so nice.

this is a thing of beauty

looking good

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First test print of the panel. No closeups because we had to wipe this one! A different ink has been ordered.

Couldn’t choose a better marketing strategy than showing off what goes on in that HQ. Ace work, loving the updates and behind the scenes looksie.

Those 3d modeling type shots are so hot, I remember seeing my first CAD drawing in 3d… So exciting. Useful as all hell too, glad there’s something similar with PCB’s.

Hats off!

Proud to say that after a rigorous review, all 4x Memory Palace boards and all 2x Escher Sketch boards are complete and have been ordered! The countdown to KnobCon has begun.

YESSSSSSSS
congratulations
how deep are you expecting memory palace to be?

Very shallow. Same as Marble Index & Polar Fringe, which are two stacked boards but on very low profile headers. Keeping the power header and any RCA jacks on the lower board means the mounting clearance is the same as a single board module. In addition to the stacked boards, there’s a display board that sits very close to the panel (it has the DVI connector and display+buttons on it) and a tiny adapter PCB for the USB OTG Mini AB connector.

After nearly (or more than?) 50 designs, we’re getting the hang of this EuroRack thing!

pancakes behind the panel and pancakes within

so it has been written

First look at packaging.

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An exhausting week over here so far. The pre-production prototype boards arrived and we’ve almost got them built up. At this stage, everything we can verify is an item checked off a long list of things we may need to correct before the production version – so far, we’re looking good!

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Assuming those few unpopulated things (U3, S2, R35, R36, etc) are intentional?

Otherwise, I think I figured out why it won’t turn on!

(In all seriousness, though, I love the dev blogs!)

Yes, we’ve got a couple more components to place! We won’t be turning it on for the first time until tomorrow morning. We have a rule around here that we never fire up a new prototype at the end of a long day!

or on fridays… thats the rule we use to deploy systems lol

Happy to report that we have our first prototype booting up and most of the peripherals verified at this point. The first unit is on its way to Ed in Sydney, and we’re building up a second one today so we can work on development in parallel.

The keyer in Memory Palace serves as a way to create an alpha channel for sources that do not have them (luma/chroma key), as an alpha channel processor, and as a kind of pre-buffer write conditioner (so, luma key based writing creates luma trails effects when masking the input to the buffer.) It can also composite between the input and feedback path. It’s not a patched out key generator module like Doorway and Polar Fringe, or an alternative to them, since it’s tethered directly as an integral part of Memory Palace’s workflow and signal path, which is complex and designed to be a next generation video feedback instrument. Using it as an alpha processor with ramps or patterns as input sources is just as powerful as the luma/chroma modes, since there is a video rate alpha input. You could think of it as a post-processor for analog keys, or as a way to selectively write things into the buffer, or composite feedback into the signal path.

I’m wondering about that DVI output since I first saw the inicital draws of memory palace. I think one of the main problems working live with analog video today is having to use a projector or LED screen that only allows digital input (or maybe it’s the only one generally used and there for it’s the only cable present on stage).

so my question to you Lars is, are you doing latency tests with that output? having something on the modular itself that allows to convert to digital and has low latency would be a huge plus <3

There will always be some latency through a frame buffer in general, and also at the frontend of a projector, but in terms of the IO on this module there shouldn’t be any latency comparatively between the analog video and DVI outputs.

I have a question regarding CV control of the Delay input on Memory Palace: is this input designed for video rate signals, or would it work best with slower frequencies? If you were to send, for instance, a vertical ramp, would the left side of the screen be moving at a slower pace than the right?

All of the modulation/CV inputs on Memory Palace will be either audio rate (so vertical displacement possible) or animation/LFO rate. By its nature, frame delay time modulation won’t respond to frequencies above the actual time delay (the modulation must happen slower.)

The exception is the alpha channel (and its corresponding modulation input, the opacity control.) If you wanted to crossfade smoothly between delayed and non-delayed versions of the image, that’s what the internal alpha compositor/soft keyer are for. You could input a vertical ramp into the alpha input and use that to fade (using the internal compositor) between what’s inside the buffer and the incoming data stream.

There may also be a slitscan mode, that specifically uses internal wipe patterns and a soft key based mask (controlled by an internal LFO) to do time displacement effects.

I can’t wait to talk more, but if I talk too much I won’t have time to implement half the cool features I’d like to before launch.

yay things to come

Can’t wait to see it at Knobcon! I am dying to ask some more questions, but I can wait… maybe… lol.

I am ready to start answering some questions, especially if they are specific.

are there gonna be Easter eggs on my digital video module?

Of course!! Maybe even a bunny.

will there be the ability to scale the CV inputs via the menu or will that be relegated to attenuation/cadet scaler etc

how many levels deep is the deepest menu currently?

you mentioned somewhere that there may be variable slew on the sliders that could be set via the menu. If that is correct is there any potential for something like a clocked sample and hold? where the clock speed was static and definable via the menu and the sample input is the slider

and if we are dreaming since you have left some mystery in the menu it seems will there be any way to potentially reference a slider say the delay and scale/sum it with another slider say the opacity?

I wasn’t going to ask questions I promise
haha

will there be the ability to scale the CV inputs via the menu or will that be relegated to attenuation/cadet scaler etc

Through the menus. Whether or not it will be a global CV scale select or per channel is one of the issues on our list for RevB hardware (which we are working on now, and will likely be the production release.)

how many levels deep is the deepest menu currently?

Current wireframe is 16 different settings, most of which select between 2-3 options. Currently not at a point where we need to have different pages. Most of the work on the menu and UI tweaking in general will be done in the next few weeks. We’re trying to keep it elegant and simple – the complexity comes from all the different combinations of the 13 slider based controls, the settings menu just defines the context they operate within.

you mentioned somewhere that there may be variable slew on the sliders that could be set via the menu. If that is correct is there any potential for something like a clocked sample and hold? where the clock speed was static and definable via the menu and the sample input is the slider

We could do that, probably as a stretch or post-release goal. But in general, that’s what the trigger input is for. You can assign the trigger input to toggle or gate a switched function (such as any of the 13 pushbuttons or some other internal parameters).

and if we are dreaming since you have left some mystery in the menu it seems will there be any way to potentially reference a slider say the delay and scale/sum it with another slider say the opacity?

Non-linear relationships between the CV inputs and slider controls are possible since they’re sampled separately – but in general what you’re describing (modulation summing and gain control) is something we feel like is best patched with analog control signals outside the module; part of the nature of the modular synth as an instrument. You could mult a CV source to multiple inputs at once and then use attenuators/offsets to define their control range.

Sooooo … Im starting to think how Ill be using Memory Palace in performance/concert. Im asumming there will be some sort of presets save/load stuff…

so when I use presets during a performance, and then I fiddle the effect so much (let say just before the climax/chorus…) I really like to come back to the initial preset via a reload optio, it will be nice to be able to quickly reload just the current page/effect settings not the whole preset.

Im thinking each part/fader of the MP will probably have settings, and just wanted to understand if there will be a reload option for the current settings of a particular fader, in addition to globally reload/load the preset.

A reset option (also individual and global) would be nice, to reload the original/factory settings for that particular fader or tge whole preset.

This reset option is very usefull when learning a new instrument, because it helps you to creatre a known starting point or baseline that you can always come back to start experimenting again

There won’t be any preset save/recall for any of the performance oriented stuff – we placed all of that on the frontpanel so that you can play it like a synth and don’t feel like you have to do any menu diving to use it as an instrument.

The settings are more like configuration options, like blending mode selection (sets the context for how feedback is composited with the incoming signal), midi channel selection, DVE position in the signal path (pre-keyer, post-keyer, etc), video I/O formats, customizing the response/lag of the sliders, etc. There will be a settings profile save/load, but the intention is that it sets up the context for the whole patch/performance rather than being a live thing. I think it will make more sense in context once I post the settings.

I think for what you want (performance based recall that can switch between totally different looks instantly) you will want to use an external MIDI sequencer and manage your presets on the controller side. For me this is very interesting in the context of USB-MIDI control in concert with editing software or a DAW, so you can do parameter automation in time with the timeline.

Think of the settings menu vs Sliders/Buttons as a DSLR camera. On the DSLR camera menu you have lots of access to settings that you may change before or after you start shooting. While you are shooting, you have the exposure wheel, button, viewfinder, etc to interact with.

Or another analogy is that the settings menu is more like the type of strings you pick for your guitar, and how you tune them before you play.

Gotcha! I was thinking MP as a instrument… similar to an audio synth, thats why I make all those assumptions.

I guess the concept in LZX instruments is more like a Guitar or a Trumpet (in a video orchesta), rather than an Hardware with Digital Synthesizer (like Elektrons, TeenageEnginering, etc…).

Yes, that’s the idea. Part of it is that Memory Palace is a component of a modular instrument, and we want the modulation interface for a modular instrument to be hands on controls, patch cables and voltage control! So the complexities of routing and so on, should come from how you patch.

We will do an Orion series standalone instrument at some point, likely a year or two from now. That will be a different context, and may be more like the video equivalent of an Elektron style synthesizer. For now we feel like modules are the way to go when it comes to the frontier of experimentation, opening up new contexts for use and multiplying possibilities.

Good questions, @DesertMuseum

One more: Will MP’s a-to-d converter be the glorious resolution to all the complications of bringing SD footage into an HD world?

wow that is fantastic news
I’m not sure if it would be something worth exploring but can it be toggled at video rates?

a happy medium that pairs a couple channels together could be nice too
opacity, hue, saturation, brightness
threshold, soften
delay, feedback
X,Y
rotation, zoom, stretch
or something along those lines

but then again there is something nice about the simplicity of global CV scaling

Yes.

Unplanned feature, but possible with the hardware. The analog outs (RGB + CVBS/YC) will always be the same signal, but the DVI out could take its feed from a different part of the signal path and may be capable of additional resolutions. The real question is what you mean by “dry and wet” and why you want it. We’ll let you tell us after you get a chance to play with it.

wow that is fantastic news
I’m not sure if it would be something worth exploring but can it be toggled at video rates?

Probably not, but that’s part of the reason for the internal keyer and alpha channel (video rate key input.) The Opacity CV slider/channel are video rate analog as well (they sum with the alpha input.) So you can create a video rate effects mask with an external key, gate, or gradient, for video rate wet/dry switching.

a happy medium that pairs a couple channels together could be nice too
opacity, hue, saturation, brightness
threshold, soften
delay, feedback
X,Y
rotation, zoom, stretch
or something along those lines

That’s possible! The sections are divided up like this:
Opacity (modulation for the Alpha channel input)
Hue, Saturation & Brightness (related to the CSC: colorspace converter)
Threshold & Softness (related to the Keyer/Alpha compositor)
Delay & Feedback (related to the frame memory storage and its feedback loop to the keyer)
X, Y, Rotation, Zoom, Stretch (related to the DVE, digital video effects)

Most of the pushbutton features are related to the DVE, the others relate to parameter modes (auto-scroll, auto-spin, etc) and some are related to the buffer (clear/freeze)

We’re focusing on 480i/576i resolutions right now, but will add HD formats and an upscaler for the DVI output if we can (the hardware is capable of it.) A lot of that has to do with whether or not we take a processing hit that in any way compromises the effects themselves. We’d of course love to offer multiple upscaler modes that can be tuned. All that said, the 24-bit RGB signal path and uncompressed memory/feedback of this device does things to SD video that are smoother and richer than anything I’ve seen before in the format. It preserves the beauty of the analog signals in a patch incredibly well, and that’s our biggest priority!

Are there Settings/options that MIDI can tickle which aren’t available to modulate via CV inputs?

No, probably not. We’re trying to avoid feature creep in that direction entirely. However given that there’s only a single trigger/gate input (which can be mapped to anything) you could probably have a lot of fun doing more complex sequencing of the pushbutton modes via a multi-channel MIDI trigger sequencer.

With this piece of hardware, we already have the core application running and looking beautifully – what happens for the next few weeks is implementation of all our stretch goal features. The priority for us is to push the hardware to its limits (providing maximum value to all of you, in owning a dedicated digital video platform) but those pushes will likely be in the area of maximizing the fidelity and latency of everything in the core applications rather than adding new features, unless it makes sense to do otherwise.

That display looks fantastic! Simple, E-Z to read layout. More and more psyched every time I get another glimpse.

Thanks! We just finished making custom fonts today. This view shows the current version of basic parameter selection screens, but some pages will also have animated elements (that respond to the sliders) and we’re hoping to get full speed video preview going as well. The OLED really looks stunning in person.

looks very nice thanks for sharing

Is the soften circuit similar to edge feathering or even across whole image?

That’s the edge softness of the key.

I would like to know if all buttons are toggle or if make sense or ita possible to have some buttons as momentary (effect its only active wjile button its been pressed, when release the video returns to original state) another question I have is effects/mode buttons can be used with some sort of transition or easing or instantaneous the change when the button is pressed? if so th transition speed could be configured?

I would like to know if all buttons are toggle or if make sense or ita possible to have some buttons as momentary (effect its only active wjile button its been pressed, when release the video returns to original state)

By default they are all 2-state toggle based parameters, but I don’t see a problem with putting momentary behavior as a configuration option on our development list.

another question I have is effects/mode buttons can be used with some sort of transition or easing or instantaneous the change when the button is pressed? if so th transition speed could be configured?

No, all of the transition based parameters are on the sliders with CV inputs already. The buttons are only used for parameters that have a binary state. If you want to transition from one of the binary effects to unaffected input, this is what the keyer (and alpha channel input) are designed to do. Or external compositor.

I do like what you’re suggesting – it’s similar to the intention behind the pushbutton control for the animation generator on Visual Cortex (push to transition, use rise/fall to set easing and transition speed.) But in terms of the LZX system architecture, it’s something to put on an animation envelope / sequencing module to be used as a CV source.

With the internal feedback loop, each control cascades to a series of related actions in the buffer repetitions – so there are many very performable transitions just with slow slider movements; especially moving two sliders at once, or moving one slider with LFO modulating another, etc. With analog we are used to creating or altering just a single element at once when a knob is turned, whereas in the buffer feedback context the echoes create a whole sequence of complex movement based on simple input motion.

I’m curious about powering the Memory Palace via 12V DC auxiliary power connector to “reduce drain on your EuroRack”. Does that mean you can power it entirely via auxiliary power, or would you still need to connect it to your main PSU for additional power?

I’d love to know too
with the liquid tv you can power it externally but it still needs to be connected up to the euro power rails

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the 12v dc is for the logic board and you still need to power the control board from eurorack rails, but I might be wrong

My understanding, which might not be full, is that the Liquid TV needs to be attached to euro power for sync purposes, even when powered by an external 12V DC connection.

You still need connection to EuroRack rails. Using the external 12V connection is for cases that might otherwise be strained on power load – when used, the EuroRack power draw drops from +450mA/-40mA to +/-40mA. If you have a EuroRack power supply that takes a 12VDC brick (like Malekko Power) you can use the same brick to power the Memory Palace and your Euro supply (Vessel makes this easy, with its internal DC barrel connector, you can just use a 1 ft’ 2.1mm barrel cable, like used on guitar pedalboards.) So essentially it’s the same deal as with Liquid TV; a way to offload the excess current taken up by the displays and digital circuitry.

I have a couple of these and imagine they are up to the task.

You will only need 12V 1A or so, for external 12VDC adapter. Look for the ones sold for CCTV systems. This one for example, looks great:

Those Johnny Woods intro videos are really nice! Always great to see someone step through features one-by-one.

So many interesting possibilities with MP!

Just a heads up, the link in the OP no longer works.

+1 on the intro videos. Those got me drooling. Very easy to follow, I wish he could make videos like this for every LZX module!

Hi @creatorlars! Memory Palace is amazing. Great work.

Feature request: Would it be possible to configure its YRGB outputs to send ramps and sync (2x ramps, 2x sync)? Especially when using MemPal as the last step in the chain, this would be a super handy way of getting these signals w/o needing those extra modules in the case (for me anyway :D).

@giantmecha No I’m sorry, that feature is not possible. The YRGB outputs will always be showing the same color video source as the CVBS/S-Video outputs (it’s the same encoder chip for the YRGB and CVBS/S-Video outs, they’re not individually addressable). Memory Palace is not a standalone module, it is an expansion module for a system that assumes Visual Cortex as the core module.

Ah okay, gotcha. Thanks for the speedy reply! I’ll figure something out.

You could get a Cadet I Sync Gen + Cadet IV Ramp Gen to get those functions in 8HP.
As a standalone unit, the MP’s stills loader could replace the ramp gen in some ways.

Here is another feature suggestion for the ‘stills’ menu.

Currently when selecting the image still, with the arrows you select/toggle between folders and the image sections, and then if you press the yellow square button you change either the folder value or go to the next image on the current folder.

My suggestion is to swap the controls, to use the up and down buttons to move between images or folders, and the square yellow button to toggle between folder selection or image selection. Its a bit (not a lot) annoying to do a lot of clicks on the yellow button when the images you just loaded is the previous one since you need to fully cycle all the images in the current folder… the same will happen when we have too many folders.

will/can the memory palace accept HID messages? I suppose I could wrap something in max or PD to output MIDI instead

Is there a “hard reset” button combo for the MP for when it crashes? Or just best to turn the case power off and on again?

Why or when is it crashing? Make sure your case has enough current and that there is ample airspace around the rear fan. The only crashes unrelated to power we’ve had so far have been related to the SD card interface.

I think it’s happened twice now. Not sure what prompted the first one, but today’s was a patch with lots of feedback, and then (accidentally) hitting the A/B button…it crashed on a very feedback-y frame and I couldn’t get it out of that state. Added up the power and it should be okay, and I think there’s plenty of airspace.

Cool, that does sound like an SD card interface related glitch (when you hit any button, there’s an SD card access and save state.) We should have some of that cleared up in the next release, but admittedly distracted by production and end of year accounting right now. Can’t wait to get back to Memory Palace.

Okay cool, good to know. Will keep you posted on any more crashes as they arise…

MemPal is so dang cool, thanks for your amazing work. Barely scratching the surface.

@wednesdayayay One of the big sprints this year on Memory Palace will be to get some USB host drivers running for USB MIDI, USB HID (I want a trackball!), and potentially USB Video Class. So not yet, but it’s on the agenda. A lot of this stuff will be developed in tandem with TBC2 and future Orion Class III modules, as it’s one of the ways we’re able to fund development, is to treat it like a group project for the whole series.

A trackball would really tie the room together.

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Single link. Dual link is used by graphics cards that can use a splitter to send separate video feeds to two different monitors.

DVI doesn’t take audio, that’s just for HDMI. If you need audio, you can use one of those HDMI audio splitter thingies (haven’t tried this one, but there’s lots out there):

@creatorlars what about statut leds in the back panel, could you describe fonctionnality?

In my mind the straigh way to do it is using an arduino, mixing PS/2 and midi librairies… If I’ll get some time I’ll try to make something (I’m working now on a Nunchuck Wii controler to midi hiRes to drive MP)

The status LEDs are for Power, FPGA Config (turns on once FPGA has booted up) and USB activity.

That’s the Deadband value in the slider settings adjust page. Larger value will increase the size of “zero” in the middle of the range. You can adjust s-curve response and slew on that page as well. We’ll have the ability to disable or reposition the colorspace converter in a future firmware update.

+1 for a compatibility chart! I think it should be kind of like an emulator compatibility chart… not just “works/doesn’t-work”, but something like “perfect/good/poor/doesn’t-work”, with notes for any status other than “perfect” if necessary. Although I guess it gets a little complicated since there’s so many modes in the gen3 gear, maybe? I guess the notes part might need to be dropped.

@creatorlars Is this a good thread for people to comment about their experiences? Or do you want to keep this thread to a Q&A kind of vibe?

Discussion is great! The purpose of this post: make it easy for other community members to gain access to community knowledge on this subject.

Regarding data structure for a compatibility matrix, it is kind of tricky. Given the number of formats you could test in, and the number of modules, and the obvious benefit of logging notes from multiple user reports in any of these cases, the data is like a cube – and that’s not easy to represent in a single table. Maybe there’s a better way.

We could use the forum’s tagging system, and then perhaps provide an index and “ratings chart” in this thread or one like it. For example, all posts tagged “Navigator” and “Gen3” is a good indication of user reports on Navigator’s compatibility with Gen3’s HD modes. This makes the forum’s search functions more powerful.

Although this is a topic about formats, I think power would be a useful dimension especially for the system building topic.

When building a 2x84HP or bigger system, with mostly but not exclusively Gen3, it seems difficult to get around having 2 types of power supplies (a bus board and a DC distro or cheaper alternative). In that case the potential of Gen3 offering a more affordable power solution seems lost. Especially if we don’t want to introduce any noise form cheap power supplies meant to power only a couple of non-Gen3 (/non-LZX) powered commands.

Curious what you recommend or how others are planning to do this.

I’ve just added a DC Distro to the PSU2/PSU3 cases that I’ve been using. I’m committed to a mixed case for a while because I love the vibrance of the DIY scene and the legacy modules are all fairly distinct from their Gen3 replacements.

I would either have 2 separate cases (one DC Distro, one EuroRack), or a rack case with multiple rows (some rows EuroRack, some rows DC Distro), or if a single combined case was a must, I’d install a EuroRack power supply/busboard with enough 12V DC current to supply both EuroRack and Gen3 commands. It’s also a question of proportions. If you’re just putting a couple of Gen3 modules in your existing case, powering them from the EuroRack shouldn’t be a problem in most cases.

Cheaper input power supplies is only one reason for the Gen3 power distribution scheme, that’s only part of the puzzle. Some of the modules are massive analogue circuits, and just require more power in general. Making them possible as low HP modules is quite a task, and so I don’t think there are any off the shelf EuroRack supplies that could handle an all Gen3 system.

will the LZX euro power supply be coming back at any point?

I’ve got one of the LZX power supplies a 5a dc distro for the big modules and a 3a dc distro for a row of regular gen 3 plus a 4ms black row power that I’ve used for a long time but is kind of noisy. So I think I should be set for the moment to get things rolling again.

the skirting and stairs on our new house should be finished by tomorrow so we should be moving in in the next couple weeks! Then once things are moved in I can start setting the dedicated space up again. I’m so pumped to start streaming with a system again. I should be getting a package from LZX today with a bunch of good stuff.

We could do a combined EuroRack and DC distribution busboard at some point, likely when we offer a new version of Vessel or a new case. But it would be a higher priced variant than the base option, which would be DC distribution only. It would be very good to hear everyone’s thoughts, complaints, desires, etc for all of these solutions as you confront integrated setups. What percentage of a system is going to be Gen3 vs earlier generations of modules, for example? If it’s 90% Gen3, a couple old modules, that could be annoying. If it’s 90% old modules, a couple Gen3 modules, then most Euro supplies should be fine. If a new busboard design (Euro + DC) is something that solves a lot of folks issues in the short term, we could prioritize that.

We’ve tried to engineer a low impact solution that solves basic Euro power vs Video modules issues that have been around ever since the introduction of non linear power supplies and shallow skiff cases into the EuroRack landscape (something that happened in early 2010s, between Visionary and Expedition series.) Even with linear supplies, distributed +/-12V always proved a big problem for us, since any modern (past few decades!) video parts run off of +/-5V.

So high power, ultra low noise, miniature-scale form factor – it’s a tall order! There are of course going to be some integration road bumps – our hope is that our solution is a balanced one, that allows the growth of the format and systems, while still allowing integrated systems rather than ditching EuroRack power entirely.

changing from PAL to 1080i60.

esg as master sync to cortex.

That all looks as expected. Visual Cortex does not support 1080i60 modes (it runs in NTSC or PAL only).

More on this point. I don’t think you’ll suffer a decrease to any existing EuroRack power supply performance when using distributed DC 12V in the same case as EuroRack commands. The DC 12V entry never touches the analog signal path – that’s all being powered from the rear power entry board on the LZX commands. On that board is a big EMI filter right at the input, and a power supply topology that produces very low noise +/-5V rails (and those are what power the IO and the rest of the signal path.)

If you are seeing some kind of noise like that with DC distribution, make sure you are using shielded jumper cables and that all modules are secured to the case with mounting screws. If you’re still seeing some kind of noise, give us all the details on your setup so we can try to recreate the issue in the lab.

What I mean is, if next to a couple of Gen3 + DC Distro (or other supply) modules, you also have a non-Gen3 module that is powered by a different very noisy power supply. Maybe I’m misunderstanding but if that noise has entered the patch via one dirty power supply, it will not be filtered by the Gen3 modules anymore, right? Or do all signals you patch go through those EMI filters?

Ah okay, I get you now. And yes, that’s correct. You can’t expect the Gen3 modules to remove any noise from other commands. So it’s best that you always use a lower noise EuroRack power supply, same as it’s always been, to get the best performance out of EuroRack powered commands.

Has anyone used Castle modules in HD workflows? I’m curious how those do.

Used caste adc and dac. They work as expected with some rough edges

susynct - thank you for a needed boost of confidence in the upcoming merger

There’s no inherent reason the Castle modules, apart from Castle Clock VCO, won’t function correctly in HD timings.

Castle Clock VCO expects H/V sync on the CV/Gate power connector which is a deprecated standard in Gen3.

To get H/V sync into the Clock VCO, simply take a H or V ramp from DSG’s SUM output (use a dummy cable to disable the other ramp), sum it with an adjustable bias (Passage, Proc, Fox Access, etc.) and plug it into the front panel’s Sync input. Same principle applies for syncing any oscillator that doesn’t have an RCA connector. Cadet IX may be modified for a front panel sync input.

You can use the same H/V ramp + offset approach for any of the other Castle modules with Clock or Reset inputs that can benefit from being locked to H/V pulses.

https://community.lzxindustries.net/t/tbc2-aka-bell-tower/319/67

I am hoping this is still the case, however.

Yes, HV sync outs are available on TBC2, same as Cortex. (The 2-position DIP switch enables HV sync to the CV/Gate bus on the EuroRack power header.)

Very good. That solves a sync problem that’s been bugging me. Thanks.

By this I guess you mean composite sync is available on the power bus, for compatibility with legacy video commands. TBC2 does not currently provide separate H or V sync outputs either at the front or rear panel, right?

As I mentioned previously, it would be super sweet to have vertical sync available as a patchable signal, for purposes of vertical interval switching, oscillator and envelope triggering, and full frame/field sample and hold. I’ve made this work with Syntonie video sync’d oscillators, and it’s awesome. But it would be even better if I didn’t have to tie up an entire oscillator and comparator just to provide vertical sync to a sample/hold trigger input.

Which also brings up the question, what is the square wave input on the front of TBC2?

Thanks!

“HV sync over power bus” refers to the older sync system used for the Gen1 oscillators and early Prismatic Rays.

Assignable trigger function input, like Memory Palace.

By this I guess you mean composite sync is available on the power bus, for compatibility with legacy video commands. TBC2 does not currently provide separate H or V sync outputs either at the front or rear panel, right?

Correct. There are no 3.5mm patchable syncs on the front or rear of TBC2.

There’s an HV ref / sync generator module coming, which will have discrete sync outputs and HV reference ramps. Unlike previous generations, a module like this isn’t required for every system, since modules like ESG3 can also function as a standalone sync generator.

That’s awesome… but I’m out of rack space.

Any chance you’d be willing to make Vsync available from TBC2 Y output via a firmware update?

Thanks!

The Y output is an analog sum of the RGB outputs, so addressing it individually won’t be possible. It is possible from the RGB outputs, by purposely misaligning the start of active video with the start of the sync interval. So it could be in a list of things to consider in a future firmware version, but beyond the scope of the initial release. You can get creative by syncing things off of the image loader in the meantime though. Just make a still image with the top scanline white and the rest black, and that will create a vertical reset pulse. If you do this with Red line on top, Blue line on left, then you will have some usable HV syncs out of R and B jacks.

Will this module also output the HV sync signals through the power bus? That would be wonderful.

No, not unless we included an extra/secondary Euro power header (maybe there is room.) We took a lot of care for the Euro header to only touch the internal circuit thru its 12V connection, which goes thru the EMI filter. A buffered output coming from the core board (on a separate Euro connector) might be possible. A module that is specifically a legacy sync adapter might be the right answer, for that and 14-pin sync.

ZOMG you just blew my mind. That is so clever. Too bad it ties up a whole TBC channel. With a Chromagnon and a Syntonie decoder I should be fine, though.

But the headline here is actually “RGB channels carry arbitrary information”. In the digital graphics world we use channel packed textures all the time, carrying arbitrary parameters such as roughness and metalness in stacked channels in RGB files e.g. PNG. Now I’m realizing that can be applied here.

In combination with other tools e.g. Color Wheel we can do some really creative stuff with channel mapping, color space conversion, color correction etc.

I’d love to try processing footage in hardware or software to convert to and from YUV and HSV. Maybe there is a way to make the decoder outputs and/or encoder inputs handle YUV.

Exciting stuff!

Is there a limit to how many modules you can sync with one sync generator? Could you build a huge wall of DSG3’s synced to one ESG3?

Is there a limit to how many modules you can sync with one sync generator?

No limit… in Gen3 every sync node is buffered, so the transmission lines between modules should perform identically no matter how many modules are in the chain. No more loop thru weirdness woes.

Could you build a huge wall of DSG3’s synced to one ESG3?

Yep! During testing, I had 5x DSG3s and 5x ESG3s all synchronized at the same time.

Yes! Once it’s a voltage in sync with the video frame, the sky’s the limit. You could encode not just sync pulses for oscillators, but different sync patterns in an image. So “image loader” seems like a mundane feature at first glance, but in our context, it’s wildly powerful.

Yeah, we could for example make a still image that has H and V ramps plus a wipe gradient, each in a separate color channel!

much like what is covered here LZX Video Synth Techniques: Gradients - YouTube

I was hoping to jump into the HD arena as well but have mostly Cadets and a Vidiot. I know the Vidiot is a beast that will forever roam SD land, but I was looking at the schematics for Cadet IX and Cadet IV to see whether it would be possible to cobble some HD into them or if my system would need a total upgrade.

On Cadet IV, C18 and C29 could probably be swapped out for something smaller to generate the appropriately sized ramps, yes?

I think Cadet IX should be okay (unless the timing cap here is also too large), but perhaps the op-amps on the exponential converter would need to change over to something faster for HD FM inputs? I remember LM6172 not being recommended in place of the TL072s in this case – there was a better suggestion earlier in the forum I can’t recall off the top of my head.

Forgive me if this has been answered already elsewhere or if I’m barking up the wrong tree!

That should work, but you may run into an issue finding perfect cap values to replace them with.
Let me run a simulation real quick… (time passes)

This is directly from the Cadet IV’s schematic (The H-rate section). The trimmer (R1) is for adjusting the ramp’s peak to exactly 1V.

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If I change the sync rate from 15.734KHz to … 33.75kHz, then a cap of about 22nF to 24nF results in close to a 1V peak. 24nF is about the highest you should use since the tolerance of any given ceramic cap might be 10- or 20% higher.

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Tayda has 18nF and 22nF ceramic caps, so it should be easy to find one that fits. The trimmer, R1, should let you trim it to 1.0V even if you’re use the 18nF cap.

Changing the cap is the easy part. Getting the HD sync pulses on a 14-pin ribbon cable will be more difficult. @joem may be working on this though.

The timing cap will still work. You will just be limited by fewer bars. Changing the cap with the ratio we used above should get you fixed up.

EDIT:

I corrected the H-rate pulse width in my simulation to 525nS as listed in the LMH1980 datasheet. This changed the perfect cap value closer to 27nF. 18nF should still work since the R1 trimmer allows for such a wide range of attenuation.

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Indeed I am. I’ll update in that thread sometime soonish hopefully when I have some more progress.

That’s amazing, thank you very much @Fox!

And yes, I was/am indeed watching @joem’s project intently

For the record, I found the LMH1980 datasheet to list tHSOUT for an HD, H-sync pulse width as 525nS, not 4.7uS as I had originally simulated. The best cap value is now 27nF. 18nF will still work since the R1 trimmer allows for such a large range of attenuation.

That 525ns is the propagation delay to expect between input and the logic outputs in the SD input modes of the LMH1980. This equates to exactly 10 clock periods of the 27 MHz pixel clock. (That’s what I have programmed as the correction factor in ESG3 firmware.) The actual HSYNC period for HD is about half of the period for SD.

A good way to do the 14 pin sync adapter would be with an embedded fpga sync generator to generate the pulses and genlock to an external source. So it could be implemented with the plugin syncgen boards from the ESG3 or the VU007B I reckon.

LMH1980 generates both HSYNC and VSYNC, and auto-detects between SD and HD, so it’s a good option if you want to integrate sync separator directly into each module.

Ah-hah. Thanks for pointing that out. 525nS sounded a bit too short, but I am still reading about the finer details of HD sync.

I am still a little confused with the LMH1980 datasheet. tdHSOUT is listed as the 60nS propagation delay and tHSOUT as the 525nS pulse output.

When considering a ramp, should the falling edge of CSOUT trigger the shorting of the cap and the rising edge of the BPOUT begin the charging phase? I was only worried about HSOUT, but tri-level sync is different than SD.

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You’re right on the timing details! I was mixed up on the SD vs HD timings in my head. 525nS is right.

For ESG3, we have the HD pulse width set to 44 cycles of the 74.25MHz or 74.176MHz reference clocks, so ~590ns.

That becomes very tricky – the right answer is that you start the ramp on pixel #1 when the AVID region goes high – and that timing is variable per video format. So it’s not something you can get a precise reference for from the LMH1980 alone – you’d need to tune the ramp start phase per format to get it perfect (maybe adjustable monostable delay of HSync with a trimmer?) Easier to base this on a sync generator/FPGA that is responsible for all of the timing. This is ultimately why we didn’t go with an analog PLL based ramp generator for DSG3 – we had an “auto calibrating” ramp circuit working beautifully, but the blanking periods would have had to be manually adjusted.

That said, all you need for a “working” ramp generator is a stable hsync reset – it doesn’t have to start exactly in the right spot to be patchable!

Hello everybody!
I’d like to connect Vidiot mini jack outputs on the panel (i.e. the diamond output) as video source for ESG3. I set the format switch to PAL.
However, the diamond shape image is not synced and it is scrolling left to right.

How to stabilize it?
thanx! : )

I don’t have either - but, you’d need to connect sync out from esg3 to a sync in on the vidiot

As far as I know there’s no sync in in the Vidiot…am I wrong?

I checked the manual - you could try the horizontal sync input - page 7/8 of the manual item 18 - worth a try at least

or see page 13!

I believe you can send the sync from the back of the ESG to the camera input of the Vidiot.
Or you can send the the Vidiot’s video output (or maybe the Eye output?) to the sync input on the back of the ESG.
Or if you have something connected to the Vidiot’s camera input, you can send the camera output to the ESG.
You’ll have to set the ESG to generate or receive sync accordingly.

Thank you it works by VIDIOT camera output to ESG3 sync input!

That’s how I sync my system

If you are using ESG3’s component output for monitoring, you can also send it’s composite output to Vidiot’s composite input for sync. That also gives you an optional feedback output from Vidiot, if you want it.

Would using the ESG3 as an output module for Rutt-Etra type stuff make any difference/sense?

I mean using the HQ mode.

Just ordered one in order to get better quality video out from my setup and haven’t looked into the other possible benefits and use cases yet.

It’s been a while, hello everyone!!

Welcome back! Are you using any older LZX modules in your vector rescanning patches and want to work ESG3 into the mix?

Thanks!!

Yes. I’ve got the usual suspects: VC, Passage, Nav and Shapechanger.

If you are using Visual Cortex as part of your patch, you will be limited to NTSC/PAL when syncing your ESG3. I don’t think you would see any change in your vector rescan workflow by adding ESG3.

That makes sense. Thanks!
Actually I do have the TBC2 so by using that the only thing coming from the VC would be the ramps.

Well the ramps are synced, so anything out of the Cortex is still limited to NTSC/PAL. However…TBC2 makes its own ramps, so you would have an HD ramp source there. TBC2 can replace Cortex in your rescan patches.

I will definitely give this a try.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who has done this with the new modules as of how noticeable the difference is.

TBC2 is good for HD ramps, I have tested this in a vector scan processing workflow.

If you care about the cleanest possible ramps, with no crosstalk, follow this procedure. Crosstalk between ramps will manifest as skewing of the raster, it won’t be perfectly rectangular.

Use one channel of TBC2 for the video image, if any.

Set up the other channel of TBC2 to output ramps. One of them on the Red output, the other on the Blue output. Turn the Green output off entirely… disabled.

But you know what, I got more control by using DWO3 or VU009 sawtooths to generate ramps. If you’re not able to get a single sawtooth cycle out of DWO3, send a static voltage (e.g. Matte) into the CV input and set the attenuverter to negative. This will slow down the oscillator more than you can by just turning the frequency down all the way.

I was wondering about HD vs SD ramps within the context of vector rescanning and lo and behold, it’s actively being discussed here. I’m considering buying a TBC2 for many reasons, one being the ramps.

Right now I use both VC and Diver as ramp generators. Doing a lot of rutt etra type stuff with external video/images, but also stuff without external inputs (shapes, patterns etc generated within the system). I don’t want to change my workflow for the rescanning portion (I’d like to keep what I’m filming off the X-Y displays as SD, so I can process the rescan video with all of the normal SD LZX modules, rest of my projects are in SD as well) but if I could increase the resolution of the ramps in my vector patching (using ramps from TBC2), I’m assuming I’d get a lot more detail within whats displayed on the vector screen itself… am I understanding that correctly? Almost as if the “fabric” that is the ramps is larger, or to put it another way, if the gain wasn’t adjusted on the display the ramps themselves would be much larger.

I use navigator pretty early in the chain in nearly every vector patch, would still work to rotate the TBC2 ramps? It’d need to be synced to TBC2?

Very basic example of what I’m envisioning:
TBC2 (Set to an HD resolution)
Encoder A- R (h ramp) G (v ramp) B (n/a) (as described by dryodryo above)
Encoder B- media loader high def sized image

Both Encoder A H+V Ramps to Navigator (synced to tbc2?)

Navigator outputs to 2 cadet crossfaders
Encoder B image mixed in to taste for displacement effect

Crossfader output to X-Y display
(And run the Luma from encoder b the TBC2 to the Z input)

X-Y display rescaned by SD camera
Colorized, keyed to taste, etc etc then output by VC

So I guess I’m kinda suggesting an HD path to the XY displays then a seperate SD path for rescanning. In my head it makes sense that there’d be a big difference using these ramps instead, HD video is much larger, but I’m not sure if it translates the way that I think it does.

You could also use Angles for ramps. NGL, TBC2 ramp randomize function is pretty fun.

Your display’s Z axis may not be able to cleanly resolve HD luma as I don’t think I’ve seen a vector monitor that can do over 10MHz on Z. The output impedance of your modules also makes a difference in whether the available details are cleanly output or simply low pass filtered.

If you are rescanning in SD prior to encode/capture, I’m not sure you’ll really be able to tell a difference regardless of how sharp HD ramps/footage appears on the monitor. You’re effectively downscaling at your colorizer/encoder stage with VC.

Post some comparisons if you end up going down this route!

I’m not 100% sure I completely understand all of that, but I can offer a few thoughts. Everything @rempesm said is true, I just want to add a couple points.

Vector monitors with a bandwidth higher than 10 MHz don’t exist, but XYZ oscilloscopes do. I have one that has 30 MHz on the Z axis. But it’s a moot point if the dot size is too large relative to the screen size. That’s the limiting factor for the vector display part of the patch.

HD ramps will give more detail than SD ramps. This is a big aesthetic difference, because SD ramps will more clearly “delineate” the lines of the raster. In my experiments with HD ramps, I’m getting much softer, ethereal, gossamer translucency rather than visible scanlines. The raster is rendering much more as a surface than as a bunch of lines. But this is also dependent on your settings. Suffice to say that an HD ramps setup can achieve some of the characteristic “looks” of an SD setup, but not so much the other way around.

In my experience, the performance of TBC2 as an up/down converter leaves something to be desired. I’m seeing it drop frames all over the place. So in any event, I recommend keeping everything in the system in the same format: camera, decoder, and encoder. As @rempesm points out, the Visual Cortex is the limiting factor here. ESG3 or Chromagnon is what you need if you’re trying to get more detail in the final product.

Also, a genlock setup is preferable to wild sync into TBC2. I’m getting frame tearing. A camera genlocked to TBC2, or a whole system genlocked to the camera via a Syntonie decoder, should solve the frame tearing issue. I guess this might also work by sending a copy of the camera’s composite or Y signal into the TBC2 Sync input? More experimentation is needed.

Good Day,

For the record- Chromagnon has NOT shipped right? I’ve moved twice since I Bought it however many years now. 4-5 I take it. It’s hard to keep up. Thanks

Ofield

Hello ,

I followed the instructions on the pdf and my module still gets stuck in the SYSLOG loop.
No matter how many times I turn off and restart the module holding down the Boot MicroSD button on the back.

I am using a MacBook and read To use a app to clean the Mini SD card.
I have done that and it still does not work.

I noticed that my Memory Palace PCB is marked 2018. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it?
As on the instructions it says Upgrading from 2019 Production Units.

I have done all the procedures of taking the SD card out and loading the software on it. Also loading the firmware from the front USB port. I see it gets written on the card.

Might be best to send your unit back to us so we can see if there’s something else going on! It sounds like you’re doing everything correctly. Please send an e-mail to support@lzxindustries.net to arrange an RMA.

How to tell which firmware version I have?

Does it start up in the PARAMS menu? Do you have Ghost mode? If so, you have V19.

Yes and I have Ghost mode; thanks

Ive downloaded the upgrade onto my mac.
It didnt recognise MP through the USB connection so I was forced to take out the sd card and download it onto that.
I followed the instructions, deleted old files and loaded new files.
While placing the sd card back in the holder the metal flap dislodged. I was able to get it on again and the card is situated where it should be.
I followed instructions to update firmware:(Press the hollow square orange button)
It stalls for about 4minutes and then goes to the main screen, doesnt restart.
I navigate back to Update firmware and the menus contain undecipherable icons. Something is corrupted!?
I have a 2019 unit and I dont see any messages that internal memory must be initialised.
What can I do?

Could you include a photo of the weird icons you are seeing?

Ive reloaded the Sd card from the downloaded file. Is it supposed to look like this?

image2016×1512 1.81 MB

image3024×4032 3.03 MB

I wish I could do the usb method, opening up the metal door on the sd card gives me anxiety, I fear Ive damaged it already, it doesnt click into place as well as it used to.

Did you run CleanMyDrive2 on the SD card after reformatting?
Did you power on the module while holding down “Boot from SD” and the red and yellow buttons (simultaneously)?

It seems reformatting and cleaning the drive was the guidance I needed. Its working now, thankyou.
Perhaps its obvious to do this but for me it would have helped to have this info in the update guide .pdf so I didnt need to waste your time.
Thankyou

Sorry about that. It isn’t always necessary, but seems to help some Mac users.

The clean my drive solved a bunch of issues for me as well.

i never got this new firmware working/ loaded .i just gave up on trying to update it.
As i am using a Apple and tried the clean my drive app and everything i could think of.

Mailing it to lzx just for a update during covid19 and the postal service being sketchy is a bad idea

You can send it in with FedEx or UPS

Is there a way to tell what firmware version one currently has in memory palace?

Could you share a photo of the System screen? The current V2.0.1 beta firmware will show the version on the system screen, but V19 does not.

I figured out I have V19 and will soon try V20. In any event, I was surprised to see that an earlier version is much easier to read…

Hi friends,

I have a 2018 Memory Palace, an early preorder unit. Attempted to update the firmware today on windows, via the USB port on the front. Followed the .pdf instructions, and am stuck in the SYSLOG loop, pressing and holding the Boot from SD button doesn’t seem to help.

Has anyone resolved this issue? Much appreesh.

Resolved the issue by holding the Boot from SD button, and the yellow and orange buttons, while having my significant other power on the case. Perhaps this could be added to the guide for us crustly old 2018 folks.

So I am still trying to update my old 2018 memory palace to the v.19 firmware. I keep getting stuck on the SYSLOG loop.

I tried you method of holding down - Boot Micro SD button ,Yellow and Orange buttons on startup.
I saw new screen saying updating “firmware will take a few moments” after that the module goes back into the same SYSLOG loop.

I don’t feel like sending my module to LZX due to slow shipping system of Covid.
And I really want to try out this new to me settings on the V.19 firmware.

How did you get past the SYSLOG loop?

please help.
I feel like smashing this module with a bat everytime I see that SYSLOG message

Let’s get you out of the woods. First, do you have the module set to internal sync, with nothing patched to it? Did you use a Mac or PC to update the firmware?

Hello,

I am using a MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017 - 3.1 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5

I have nothing plugged into the back of the module besides the power connecter.

I have set the sync to internal sync - external. Whatever setting I still get same result

I followed the pdf on updating firmware exactly as described . I get same result.

I have tried the sd card method . Same result.

I tried holding down Boot Micro SD on start up. I tried holding down yellow and orange on start up. I tried hold all 3 of them down on start up. Same SYSLOG message.

I have formatted the SD card using the “Clean my drive” app. I trashed every single thing inside the folder.

Still get the dreaded SYSLOG

IMG_55352448×3264 925 KB

here is a picture of the switch setting if it would help:

IMG_55383264×2448 2.12 MB

IMG_55393264×2448 2.28 MB

IMG_55363264×2448 2.23 MB

you might try terminating your sync by setting the EXT SYNC switch to terminate (rather than loopthrough)

since you aren’t sending it anywhere in this instance
I don’t think that should be causing this issue though

I am using the sync signal coming from Visual Cortex which is going to Memory Palace and then Navigator.

Would I still have to set the EXT SYNC to loop thru though? or Terminate?

I guess I’m confused how can you have nothing but power but also sync coming in from VC and going to nav?

you can totally using memory palace like this in fact that is how mine is set up (not master and passing sync through)

but if you are troubleshooting I would unplug all of that and just try to MP by itself 100%

when i am using the memory palace as a normal module doing video synth stuff. i have the Visual Cortex as the master sending the sync signal to Memory palace. The sync through rca jack is then connected to Navigator where the sync signal ends.

When doing the firmwarw update i unplug all the rca cablesand set memory palace to internal

The error message makes me think that there is some other issue with your Memory Palace. Could you send an email to support@lzxindustries.net so we can set you up with an RMA?

Is it possible to downgrade firmware? Many of the tutorials are using the v1 and I’d like to match whats being shown.

Sorry, don’t have time to look at specific time stamps of the video at the moment, but if you’re looking for pattern synthesis and have a Visual Cortex (which has both basic ramps and mixing/keying — somewhat analogous to DSG and FKG, respectively, though less feature-rich than either), the next module I’d probably recommend is Stairs, since that plus ramps can do a lot of fun stuff. Especially if you already have LFOs.

Then probably a DWO, yeah, to get some video-rate oscillators into the mix. Or a DSG, if that more symmetrical look is your jam.

But to answer your question about DSG, rather than trying to mod it, you could just put some outputs into Channel A of the VC and others into Channel B and voltage control the mix/fade between them there. …And, yeah, you could also do this with an FKG.

Yes, you are spot on. This is exactly in line with how these modules are designed to be used together, and the right thought process to explore sculpting video shapes with them. The functions of the modules are specific as a prompt for understanding their functions – but the patch is entirely freeform. If you look at FKG3 and DSG3 as a pair, you have 8 outputs on DSG3 and 11 inputs on FKG3 – that’s an enormous number of patterns and configurations, that are entirely defined in the patch, with no wrong answers.

Yes, this is correct. It’s often nice to have things like interpolators/faders, multipliers, etc on separate modules – that way they can be patch programmed to make whatever transition you want, rather than fixed to a specific processor/function. It’s exactly the same as “never too many VCAs” and “modulate the modulator that modulates the modulator” principles in audio synthesis.

Welcome @scuto!

Riffing on the great suggestions already presented, another possible way that you could smoothly morph between DSG3 outputs would be by using a crossfader:

https://www.videoheadroom.systems/storefront/p/channel

PROC would be another useful tool for dialing things in and for processing your DSG3 outputs in a more specific way:

Have fun and let us know what you discover along the way.

Stairs looks interesting, then I watched the three patch video on your suggestion. Short-listed! The self-feedback was an unexpected perk, and has led me to consider other modules’ self-patching/feedback.

With your and others’ replies, it seems DSG is more the way forward for me for a foundational shape-maker, though I am intrigued by the potential patterns and shapes it and a DWO interacting could make.

Good suggestion to make more intentional use of the features on VC–I’ll get to know it better while ogling the next module or two.

The LZX twitch streams (though at times a bit, uh, meandering) can also be a useful way to learn what does what.

Thank you for this feedback and clarifications! It feels good to start to understand the rationale behind the structure of the Gen3 framework–seems like a good fit for me to both learn the concepts and functions while having fun exploring them. (The VCA analogy makes a lot of sense.) Plus, that 8>11 situation is appealing, plus the VC (and Stairs!) I could have a lot of fun! I feel I’m better understanding patch programming in video modular so far compared with audio, possibly out of pure ignorance of “proper” signal flow in video. In audio I already had certain notions that I’ve been chipping away at with the help of patching modular.

Thanks for this lead! I’ll check this out. I just found the Discord, which I’ve only “skimmed” so far.

Thank you for the welcome, and the interest!

I’ll have to look into Channel, it seems feature-dense.

Interesting about Proc–the benefit of it over an audio module with the same features is the 0-1v range, and it can handle video frequencies? From the module page with the front panel legend I wasn’t clear on its offset function–if one of the two inputs marked with the same color are unpatched, that one adds an offset to the signal in the other one?

Ramps are the landscape, Oscillators are the weather…
Ramps are the harp, Oscillators are the harpist’s fingers…
Oscillators are the escalator, Ramps are the passengers…

Lots of ways to think about how to define the relationship in a given patch.

Proc is a very handy block for situations when you need to create manual voltages, attenuate a signal, invert a signal, offset a signal, or sum two signals (like a source with a modulator). Having three in one module makes it easy to patch for RGB workflows, or you can use the 3 functions independently. Generally a useful utility function block.

It can also be used as an expander for other commands. For example, 3x Proc + 1x FKG3 could create an extended color processing subsystem system where you have Gain + Offset knobs for all 9 color inputs on the FKG3.

This just made Proc the top module on my wish list!

I think I’ve already stumbled upon a visual related to this! It seems Gen3 modules would give me more control and predictability than I have now for this kind of visual.

I appreciate the Proc description! However I’m still not clear on how it creates an offset–whether the first or second column is dedicated to offsets (and the other atten/invert), or if it comes about via patching in a certain way. 3 Procs plus a FKG3 would be a remarkably detailed system for RBG-fests!

Edit: Just watched the Proc video, and it’s the column of C knobs that provide the offset, if anyone in addition to me was unclear!

The output function is A + B + C.

A is a direct input.
B is an input with it’s level/inversion controlled by the corresponding B knob.
C is a bias voltage generated by the corresponding C knob.

In general if you see knobs with outlined triangles these are controlling the level of a specific input jack that’s on the same panel.

Knobs with solid triangles are a bias control or related to some other function.

Nice–I appreciate that, and the conventions of triangle types is a good call!

I wasn’t sure where else to put this, so I’ll post it here: Is there a Gen3 module that has (or down the road will have) the same functions as the upper left Sync Generator section of Visual Cortex? I’ve been getting more out of it than I initially suspected I would, specifically feeding the H and V sync to things to see what might happen, including audio oscillators that can handle it (shout out to uniCYCLE and Synchrodyne + Expand).

Unfortunately not yet. Been waiting for this functionality myself.

Gotcha. Good to know others have this in mind as well!

In thinking about it, what I’m asking may be easier with SD resolution(s) in that an analog audio oscillator may not respond as well–or at all–to an HD sync signal compared with the SD ones from Visual Cortex. Guesstimating tho’.

People with RCA sync Prismatic Rays have had success syncing them to HD rates. They say the contrast is a little softer, however still very useable.

HD sync vs SD sync is really not that much faster. Frequency and bandwidth are two different things. If you can get an audio oscillator to lock to SD H/V sync, it seems unlikely it won’t be able to lock to other sync pulses in timings that are just a little bit faster.

EDIT:

Yep, I’ve been able to do this with both RCA and CV/Gate sync bus versions of Prismatic Ray. My experience has been that PR’s outputs have a perceptibly softer character in 1080i and especially 720p (an inherent low pass filter is being revealed in those timings) in comparison to SD timings but no obvious issues with sync itself.

Ah, interesting, thanks! Makes sense. If/when I go to an HD encoder it’ll be interesting to see how they fare.

I believe H/V sync is likely to be implemented in a TBC2 firmware update. I’ve certainly been harping on it long enough.

In general, any module that does not require SD sync will work fine in HD timings, with some horizontal blur. That blur is scene-dependent. In other words, with some images you will notice significant blur, with others you may not notice it at all. It all depends on how much detail is present in the horizontal dimension. Fine details are lost, hard edges are softened, but smooth gradients are unaffected. It’s basically a very light slew applied to changes in the brightness of each channel. Try to push a one pixel wide vertical stripe test pattern through, and you’ll get something close to solid gray. But with a normal camera image, it may look perfect.

Technically the chips are not fast enough to do full HD resolutions even though HD timings are not a problem at all.

For reference, pixel clocks:
1080i60 ~62 MHz
720p60 ~55 MHz
480i60 ~9 MHz

If I’m not mistaken, the chips in pretty much all modules top out at 10 MHz.

I wasn’t aware about TBC2 getting that in the future–I thought my wallet was safe from it since I’m not focused on processing external images/video!

Regardless, this is good info to know. I’ve been working with gradients up until very recently, so smooth and slew is in my wheelhouse.

There’s been no promise of H/V sync front panel output for TBC2… I’m just speculating. But presumably it would not be a difficult feature to add.

BTW, in all of my patches I use a sample and hold circuit to prevent horizontal tearing. I use Pulp Logic tiles because they are simple and inexpensive. Send any video synced oscillator or vertical ramp through a comparator to generate a pulse. That’s the S/H trigger source. Modulation source goes into S/H signal input. Result: modulation value is held for the entire duration of the field/frame.

I think this is proof that the CV/Gate sync bus output works

Yup, can confirm you just need to flip the dipswitches on the back of TBC2 to enable H/V sync to be sent to CV/Gate bus.

I confirmed this earlier this year, in another thread.

Also, I noted an interesting sync artifact when syncing vertically in HD. My Prismatic Rays are slow enough to get oscillating, after an HD sync, that there can be a noticable space on the left side of the image before the first bar appears.

For me, this just makes the PRs more fun. When a patch makes me notice this effect, I can look for creative ways to use it. That can only be a good thing.

Great info share that should be stickied!

I’ve still not put a visual to the term “tearing” in my brain, but your explanation makes sense. It’s good to know that other modules made for audio can be useful in a video synth context! I’d not thought of using a S/H in video, though again I’d have to try it out to know what it does visually.

I had a Kinks in my video case briefly, but didn’t fully explore it before it was moved back to audio case duties. I liked its first and second function blocks, though I don’t recall what (if any) limitations it had for video.

Patch a clock or trigger source into your encoder. You will mainly see the whole screen flash on/off but when the pulse does not line up exactly with the vertical sync generated by your sync generator, you will very briefly see the flash ‘start’ in the middle of the frame. This is what we mean by “tearing”.

Video may seem continuous but it’s actually discrete moments in time when you consider we’re seeing n frames per second.

Yeah, “tearing” is any instantaneous change in the picture that does not happen during the vertical interval between frames. It manifests as a sharp horizontal line. Commonly seen in fast-moving computer games, where the render update is not synchronized to the display refresh rate. Graphics cards have a setting called “Vsync” in which the rendered data is held in a memory buffer until the next vertical interval. It’s an option because some people want faster updates to rendered frames, others want smooth video with no tearing.

By the way, if you want horizontal bars in an image, resulting from e.g. cranking a modulating audio oscillator up into supersonic video range, then you can’t use the sample/hold technique. It’s always going to limit the modulation frequency to the current frame rate, so you will never get intraframe transitions, i.e. horizontal bars.

Also by the way, we’re starting to see this sort of thing implemented within commands. VH.S Aural Scan has the vsync S/H circuit built into it.

Thank you both for thse explanations. I’m at work so can’t try the clock into encoder thing, and am having difficulty understanding:

Does this mean that I would use, say, a ramp instad of an oscllator (either audio or video) in order to try the S/H technique? Or is it meant for processing external video?

I find the term “intraframe transitions” a useful way of conceptualizing horizontal bars–thank you!

Aural Scan is a tempting one, for sure. Eventually I’d like to coordinate my audio and video, but feel I have much to learn.

Question for either of you–or anyone, really!: how is the frame sync out on the front of Visual Cortex related to this discussion? I’ve not yet tried plugging it into an audio oscillator to sync it since I was having too much fun with the other outs.

The concept here is to limit the modulation frequency to the frame rate. A free-running oscillator, or any modulation source, can change value within a single frame. If it’s a sudden change, you get a sharp horizontal line. If it’s a gradual change, like a sine wave, you get a gradient.

In the former case, you can put the modulation source through a sample/hold circuit. Whatever value the modulation source has at the beginning of the frame is held until the next frame. No jagged horizontal bar.

In the latter case, e.g. with a high frequency audio oscillator, the horizontal pattern may be desirable. Soft scrolling horizontal bars look cool. If you want that, then you can’t use the S/H method, because that quantizes the modulation so that it can only change between frames, not in the middle of a frame.

Visual Cortex Vsync output should be perfect as the trigger for the S/H. In the absence of a true Vsync, one can generate a pseudo-Vsync from a ramp or video-synced oscillator through a comparator.

None of this is directly processing video images, it’s solely about wrangling the low frequency and audio frequency sources that feed into video processor commands.

Ah, scrolling vs synced audio oscs! That was the distinction I didn’t pick up on, makes much more sense now. Recently I’ve only used audio oscs synced, if you can believe it. Sync up a PDO, get those self-phase-modulations going, (attenuate) and have some squiggly fun (for just one example). And I’ve definitely been on a gradient kick, more sine than tri (though don’t tell my VU009!). Thank you for taking the time with these explanations! I’ve got a few case adjustments to make, which I actually enjoy once I get the time.

Yeah, if you have an audio oscillator that syncs its duty cycle to an external clock, you probably don’t need the S/H. Just feed it Vsync or pseudo-Vsync with sufficient amplitude for the trigger. But for more complex modulations, S/H is a helpful technique.

I’ll definitely be playing with the S/H teachnique now that I’ve understood it a little better.

It has been interesting to see which audio oscillators take the VC’s V-sync well–some of which I didn’t expect, and others I thought would take it well don’t. Some day I will do a proper test of the ones I have, likely using the Vermona Amplinuator to boost the sync if/as needed since the modules of theirs that I have play relatively well with video.

Often you don’t even need to increase the gain of the V sync–you just need to offset/bias it so the rising edge is crossing the voltage threshold the oscillator’s sync input is expecting.

Ah, interesting! I’ll have the offset option on hand when I give this a shot. I like me an offset module–might test them as well for handling of video signals, got a handful that can offset an incoming signal.

Bias/offset becomes much more important in video than audio because we’re primarily dealing with a DC coupled signal instead of AC coupled signals.

If you send offsets into an audio output module, you’re not going to really hear anything exciting. At best, AC coupling will negate any DC offsets you introduce and at worst, you’re going to force the speaker cone to just sit stuck in one position and it will probably not sound great.

Plug offsets into a video encoder module, and you’re directly altering the black level of each color component.

Thanks for that about offsets in video! Makes sense. I already have a Passage, and may have to get a second or a Proc due to its input cascading/“multing”. Crucial utility modules, those.

When it comes to audio modular, though, I’d argue offsets are important as well–primarily for working with control voltages. If an audio oscillator doesn’t have a fine enough tune control, attenuating an offset into an FM or pitch input gives super fine control. The larger the knob’s diameter, the finer the tuning (AFG, Richter Oscillator as two good examples), but those “trim pot” style knobs for fine tune are too prevelant on many euro oscs–not good for accurate fine tuning unless their range is greatly restricted. I’ll be adding an offset module for fine tuning DWO3 when I get a chance to tend to my case. Offsets are also useful if you want to introduce asymmetrical clipping/distortion to an audio signal. Then there’s combining offsets and a sequential switch to make a simple sequencer.

Not all audio output modules are AC-coupled, since some believe they can hear the capacitor’s effect on the sound. Other output modules AC-couple/ground lift through a transformer instead (I like these, personally). But it’s not even necessary to have an output module in audio since many mixers, audio interfaces, and digital handheld recorders can easily attenuate the (Eurorack) modular level to line level without clipping. Some may clip no matter what, but most seem to handle it fine.

Completely valid point about the use of offsets in audio modular. I was more referencing what happens when plugging a DC offset directly into your output stage with nothing in between. Biasing your control voltages is essential for fine tuning whether it’s in audio or video land.

Yup, totally hear you on the AC-coupled point, too. Was just hitting the broad generalization that folks can often have an audio output module and it’s not unusual for them to be AC coupled. Luckily modular lets you pick what works for your approach–I just put all of my outputs into a chunky outboard mixer for years and never had any problems.

Ah, gotcha! Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, not much interesting in audio putting DC right to the output.

That’s cool–what mixer have you been using? I was using Mackies before going straight into a Zoom H5 and mixing more in the case.

Mackie Onyx 1640i, then Firewire multitracked to a DAW for recording.

That mixer is no joke! Nice piece of gear. Haha, I get you re firewire–if it ain’t broke… If I may be so snobby, one of the things I like about us electronic creative types is our relative resistance to planned obsolescence. I love it when I see someone keeping a WinXP/OS9/C64/Atari/etc. computer alive because it runs that software we just need to have because it does that one thing so well–or was the last thing to do it at all.

@scuto “Is there a Gen3 module that has (or down the road will have) the same functions as the upper left Sync Generator section of Visual Cortex? I’ve been getting more out of it than I initially suspected I would, specifically feeding the H and V sync to things to see what might happen…”

You could look into the sync trigger stuff using the newly for sale SCROLLS module, which features a PULSE output for these kinds of experiments. (phase adjustable and capable of scrolling motion).

Wanted to add that the VU009 is great for generating pseud0-VSYNC through a comparator because VU009 has an Offset control. Basically it’s a bias, and if I remember correctly, it clips anything above 1 and below 0. @syntonie

I wouldn’t have realized this otherwise–thanks for pointing it out!

I already have one so this is an interesting suggestion. I used Modulargrid to look up video comparators and saw that Seuils has them (I’ve already been ogling Seuils for its phase shifting and blue-ness).

Also on that MG list was Cadet VIII which leads me to ask if any hard key generator can do this. So far my only hard key gen module is Ribbons, but I’m unsure if being a window key gen is too off the mark to do pseudo V-sync.

(NB I’ve not grokked VC’s keying section yet… don’t even know if it’s working correctly!)

You don’t need a video rate comparator for pseudo-VSYNC. It’s only a maximum of 60 Hz. Any audio rate comparator will work. All you need is a voltage downconverter, since audio rate modules will output variously 5V, 10V, or even 12V

Ah, thanks! I think you or someone already informed me of the 60Hz rate. Got me some logic, attenuators, and will give this a whirl soon.

I made a video demonstrating sample and hold patches to correct frame tearing and shape distortion.

sample_hold_vsync_011920×1080 41.4 KB

sample_hold_ramp_011920×1080 39.9 KB

sample_hold_vu009_011920×1080 46.4 KB

Been away for a bit, but this is a treat to return to, as well as your DSG3 video–my weekend will fill my brain now, thank you!

Ok, that was great! Thanks for making this. Learned a bit more about this topic, and it makes more sense. Mutable’s Kinks has been in and out of my video case for a while, so this will bring it back again. And Mystic’s Ana will likely be my comparator. In addition, your shirt rules, and you’re a fellow Firefox user.

And it looks like I can set Mutable’s Ears to spit out a 8v gate at a jumper-selectable level, and 1v is among the choices (2v and 4v being the others). Am I thinking correctly this could be the comparator?

I don’t know about Ears. You certainly don’t want the microphone to be active, you only want the gate to be triggered by the sync signal you supply. The threshold probably needs to be slightly below 1V, unless you preamplify the sync signal to greater than 1V.

Ok, that makes sense. I have some preamp means, so I hope to try it soon!